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ProcessControl · 2005 July 25th, 04:54 AM

With regard to your question about taking a bank loan, let me tell you my story. I was accepted into the University of Illinois (Urbana-Champaign) for an M.S. degree two years ago. When I got the acceptance letter I was both excited and sad. Excited because I have always wanted to attend the University of Illinois, and sad because the offer came without funding. The tuition+expenses for an international student that year was US$36,000.

After talking to some profs, I discovered why my acceptance came without funding, despite the fact that my academic record was strong:

1) I applied for the M.S. program when I had really wanted to do a Ph.D. The department I was applying to generally did not fund M.S. students in their first semester. 90% of the M.S. students get TAs and RAs in their second semester, contingent upon a good academic record in the first semester (which meant students generally had to fund themselves during the first semester, i.e. fork out US$18,000 for out-of-state tuition). Only in exceptional cases were M.S. students funded in their first semester (I only knew of one guy there who was funded for his M.S., and he was from an IIT).
(Note: Then again, this wasn't exactly my fault -- that department at UIUC did not allow direct Ph.D. applicants unless they did their undergrad degree at UIUC. Peculiar policy.)

2) I applied for a major different from that of my undergrad (I was switching fields). Which meant I couldn't TA most of the courses in that department. Although my academic record was strong, they didn't think I could TA courses I've never taken.

So I wrote to the admissions committee asking for a 1 semester deferment of my admission so that I might have some time to look for alternative sources of funds. They agreed.

Meanwhile, I went back to my home country and got a job, and explored options. I tried applying for private scholarships, but the economy was tight then and very few companies were giving out any. I looked into government scholarships before dismissing them (too little, and too many strings attached).

The final resort was a bank loan. I looked into a education loan from a bank in my country and at first glance, the plans looked very attractive. Education loans were low-interest, and the repayment terms were flexible.

Then there was this U.S. education loan by Citibank USA, which was open to international students provided they could get a U.S. citizen to co-sign. This sounded promising, I thought. I figured I only needed enough money to fund myself for one semester (US$18,000 -- realistically US$13,000 if I lived cheaply, and I can be very frugal).

At this point, I decided to have a talk with a family friend (who is, coincidentally, an alumnus of the UIUC econometrics program, did his B.S. and M.S. there 40 years ago). We worked out how much the bank loan would cost, and what the risks were.

In the end, our conclusion was this: unless I was American (in which case I'd qualify for U.S. federal loans), taking a bank loan from a commercial bank isn't worth it.

1) If I took a loan from a bank in my home country, I'd be a slave to the bank for life if I didn't get a high paying job after I graduated. (and seeing that my final goal was a Ph.D., I wasn't planning to graduate that soon)

2) Ditto with the Citibank loan. Banks are not your benefactor -- and if you have to take a loan in a currency that's worth more than your own, the risk is multiplied.

I was crestfallen.

But in the end, I snapped out of it and decided it is simply not worth paying that kind of money for just one semester of a Master's degree, even if the school is very famous.

I remembered what a professor of mine back at McGill told me: he said I should never have to go to a school that will not fund me, because if a school didn't fund me (no matter what its reputation is), some other school would. He also asked me to consider staying in Canada, where most Master's students are funded.

Canada views M.S. degrees very differently from the U.S. In Canada, it's perfectly acceptable to terminate your studies with an M.S. degree. It's possible to do solid research at the Master's level, and professors and the Canadian government generally fund such research.

In the U.S., the M.S. degree is seen either as a consolation prize for those who failed their qualifiers, or those who just want to get their feet wet in research. (To be fair, I don't think everybody subscribes to this, but I get the impression that the profs from Big 10 schools that I've talked to do).

So I'm now back in grad school, having the time of my life at a school that I like (and surrounded by people who are at the top of their game), doing what I want, and not having to pay a cent for this privilege.

The message here? Unless you're applying for a professional program (where nobody gets funded) or to a humanities program (ditto), don't go to a school where there's no funding.

Taking a loan to fund a U.S. education is extremely risky, and only worth doing if you're American or think you can get a job that pays well enough for you to repay the loan in a finite amount of time. ;-)

No point saddling yourself with debt for a 2-year degree. If you're really desperate for an M.S., try Canada. The system's not too different from the U.S., and we do have some top people here. And if you decide to do a Ph.D. at a U.S. school after that, you'd stand a much better chance of getting in with your Master's than you would with your bachelor's.

As for whether you'll get into a Top 50 university in the U.S., I'm not qualified to judge your credentials... but other people here might have a better idea about where you stand.

2005 July 25th, 04:54 AM	#2 (permalink)
ProcessControl Eager! Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 40	With regard to your question about taking a bank loan, let me tell you my story. I was accepted into the University of Illinois (Urbana-Champaign) for an M.S. degree two years ago. When I got the acceptance letter I was both excited and sad. Excited because I have always wanted to attend the University of Illinois, and sad because the offer came without funding. The tuition+expenses for an international student that year was US$36,000. After talking to some profs, I discovered why my acceptance came without funding, despite the fact that my academic record was strong: 1) I applied for the M.S. program when I had really wanted to do a Ph.D. The department I was applying to generally did not fund M.S. students in their first semester. 90% of the M.S. students get TAs and RAs in their second semester, contingent upon a good academic record in the first semester (which meant students generally had to fund themselves during the first semester, i.e. fork out US$18,000 for out-of-state tuition). Only in exceptional cases were M.S. students funded in their first semester (I only knew of one guy there who was funded for his M.S., and he was from an IIT). (Note: Then again, this wasn't exactly my fault -- that department at UIUC did not allow direct Ph.D. applicants unless they did their undergrad degree at UIUC. Peculiar policy.) 2) I applied for a major different from that of my undergrad (I was switching fields). Which meant I couldn't TA most of the courses in that department. Although my academic record was strong, they didn't think I could TA courses I've never taken. So I wrote to the admissions committee asking for a 1 semester deferment of my admission so that I might have some time to look for alternative sources of funds. They agreed. Meanwhile, I went back to my home country and got a job, and explored options. I tried applying for private scholarships, but the economy was tight then and very few companies were giving out any. I looked into government scholarships before dismissing them (too little, and too many strings attached). The final resort was a bank loan. I looked into a education loan from a bank in my country and at first glance, the plans looked very attractive. Education loans were low-interest, and the repayment terms were flexible. Then there was this U.S. education loan by Citibank USA, which was open to international students provided they could get a U.S. citizen to co-sign. This sounded promising, I thought. I figured I only needed enough money to fund myself for one semester (US$18,000 -- realistically US$13,000 if I lived cheaply, and I can be very frugal). At this point, I decided to have a talk with a family friend (who is, coincidentally, an alumnus of the UIUC econometrics program, did his B.S. and M.S. there 40 years ago). We worked out how much the bank loan would cost, and what the risks were. In the end, our conclusion was this: unless I was American (in which case I'd qualify for U.S. federal loans), taking a bank loan from a commercial bank isn't worth it. 1) If I took a loan from a bank in my home country, I'd be a slave to the bank for life if I didn't get a high paying job after I graduated. (and seeing that my final goal was a Ph.D., I wasn't planning to graduate that soon) 2) Ditto with the Citibank loan. Banks are not your benefactor -- and if you have to take a loan in a currency that's worth more than your own, the risk is multiplied. I was crestfallen. But in the end, I snapped out of it and decided it is simply not worth paying that kind of money for just one semester of a Master's degree, even if the school is very famous. I remembered what a professor of mine back at McGill told me: he said I should never have to go to a school that will not fund me, because if a school didn't fund me (no matter what its reputation is), some other school would. He also asked me to consider staying in Canada, where most Master's students are funded. Canada views M.S. degrees very differently from the U.S. In Canada, it's perfectly acceptable to terminate your studies with an M.S. degree. It's possible to do solid research at the Master's level, and professors and the Canadian government generally fund such research. In the U.S., the M.S. degree is seen either as a consolation prize for those who failed their qualifiers, or those who just want to get their feet wet in research. (To be fair, I don't think everybody subscribes to this, but I get the impression that the profs from Big 10 schools that I've talked to do). So I'm now back in grad school, having the time of my life at a school that I like (and surrounded by people who are at the top of their game), doing what I want, and not having to pay a cent for this privilege. The message here? Unless you're applying for a professional program (where nobody gets funded) or to a humanities program (ditto), don't go to a school where there's no funding. Taking a loan to fund a U.S. education is extremely risky, and only worth doing if you're American or think you can get a job that pays well enough for you to repay the loan in a finite amount of time. ;-) No point saddling yourself with debt for a 2-year degree. If you're really desperate for an M.S., try Canada. The system's not too different from the U.S., and we do have some top people here. And if you decide to do a Ph.D. at a U.S. school after that, you'd stand a much better chance of getting in with your Master's than you would with your bachelor's. As for whether you'll get into a Top 50 university in the U.S., I'm not qualified to judge your credentials... but other people here might have a better idea about where you stand.