stanfordian Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 hi everyone. I'm a 3rd year PhD student (engineering, but working with a business school professor on applied economics problems) at stanford. I came to this forum by accident but have found it very interesting. I understand that this is the time of the year when people are just hearing about their admissions. I'd be happy to answer questions that you might have. Cheers! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEPHDWANNABE Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 Is it true that Standford intentionally takes more students only to get rid of them after the qualifying exams? Does just about every admitted student (PhD track) get fully funded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reactor Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 hi everyone. I'm a 3rd year PhD student (engineering, but working with a business school professor on applied economics problems) at stanford. I came to this forum by accident but have found it very interesting. I understand that this is the time of the year when people are just hearing about their admissions. I'd be happy to answer questions that you might have. Cheers! your profile? how is the business school? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanfordian Posted March 20, 2005 Author Share Posted March 20, 2005 The PhD qualification procedure differs greatly from one department to the next. I assume you are interested in EE. The EE qualifying exam is actually not that bad. Each student is given two tries to pass, and the cumulative pass rate exceeds 50%. Keep in mind that many of the exam-takers are masters students wanting to move to the PhD program, and as such 50% is in fact very high. Other departments have either no such provision for masters students or have a much lower pass rate (20-25% for some, I'm aware). In general I'd characterize Stanford's PhD qualification system as fair. I don't feel that there is an intention to take more and then screen. Funding shouldn't be an issue for any PhD student in engineering. Most students are offered at least one year of funding, and once you pass your qualifying exam it's easy to find research assistantship. That's a great way to get financial support as well as to start your research. Financial support is a bigger deal for people in the sciences or humanities, where if they don't get guaranteed funding they have to do TAships (which suck). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymouse Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 Hi Stanfordian, I got an admit for MS-Only admission from Deptt of EE Stanford for Fall 2005. The letter doesn't mention anything about financial aid. Does that mean that I will have to self-finance at least the first year? What is the cost for the program all wrapped up? And I got the same questions as EEPHDWANNABE. I might hesitate to go on a MS-only admission, if the chances of passing the PhD qualification exam is below 50% -- just calculating, not giving any indication of my shortcomings/expertises. Anyway, it would be best if the Department assigned a faculty member to act as at least an temporary advisor for those selected for admission, because we have so many questions regarding admission, availability of funds, research interests, studies, etc. Some universities do follow this principle, and I think it's good as it does give the selected student the idea that someone will help him if he has trouble deciding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanfordian Posted March 20, 2005 Author Share Posted March 20, 2005 Hi gstergia. I'd rather not say too much about myself as I prefer to keep anonymous. The GSB is superb. The most impressive aspect is its excellent placement record (assuming if academia is your thing). Because GSB students are fully funded and don't have TA duties, they usually begin publication much earlier (say, compare to Econ students). Many people have 3-4 papers submitted to refereed journals by the time they graduate, and thus expect good placement. Top business schools pay really well. If you have more specific questions about the GSB I'd be happy to answer them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanfordian Posted March 20, 2005 Author Share Posted March 20, 2005 Hi jerrymouse. Usually MS students are not guranteed funding of any sort at Stanford. However, some students have been able to find funding upon arrival by doing research for some professor. But you should not count on that. Cost is about $7000 for each academic quarter's tuitoon as well as about $1500 per month for other expenses. Usually people take 3 academic quarters of courses, do an internship, and then 2 more quarters after that to finish off the MS. Whether MS at Stanford will be a good choice for you depends on several issues, including what your other offers are. To be honest I think a 50% pass rate where the majority of the exam-takers are masters students is actually exceedingly generous/easy. The way I see it, if you can't pass the exam than perhaps a research career is not for you. And in that case, there are still plenty of industry opportunities that may excite you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reactor Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 Hi gstergia. I'd rather not say too much about myself as I prefer to keep anonymous. The GSB is superb. The most impressive aspect is its excellent placement record (assuming if academia is your thing). Because GSB students are fully funded and don't have TA duties, they usually begin publication much earlier (say, compare to Econ students). Many people have 3-4 papers submitted to refereed journals by the time they graduate, and thus expect good placement. Top business schools pay really well. If you have more specific questions about the GSB I'd be happy to answer them. More questions or more specific? :) Well, I want to know how the "PhD in Economic Analysis" is different from a "PhD in Economics" from a department of Economics. How can I know if a university (i.e. Univ. of British Columbia) is well known in the US? and if its MA will get me in Stanford GSB "PhD in Economic Analysis"? thank you!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Watson Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 The EE qualifying exam is actually not that bad. Each student is given two tries to pass, and the cumulative pass rate exceeds 50%. Keep in mind that many of the exam-takers are masters students wanting to move to the PhD program, and as such 50% is in fact very high. Thank you for your answers. I was offered an admission to MS/PhD program in EE and this issue is very important for me. You are saying that many of the exam-takers are masters students aiming for PhD program, and this makes 50% pass rate look not so bad. I must admit I do not understand what is the difference between Masters student and PhD student taking this exam. They are in equal positions. I don't think Masters students are less clever than those in PhD program. If a masters student passes this exam, he/she will go on to PhD progam. If PhD student fails this exam, he/she will be expelled from the university. My goal is PhD, and I still interprent 50% failure rate at the quals as 50% probability that Stanford will get rid of me in a year or two after my studies begin. I would be glad to hear that my understanding is wrong. I want to add that I am ready to work hard, I am confident in my abilities, I am eager to succeed, and I cannot imagine how I can fail any exam (I have 4.0 GPA). However, I guess everyone entering Stanford thinks this way, and still 50% fails. I feel really uneasy about this number. I want to work hard and I also want to have the result! I cannot afford wasting years of my life and getting nothing in return. If decide to enter Stanford MS/PhD program (i.e. MS leading to PhD), is there any guarantee that I will not be thrown away despite all my hard work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanfordian Posted March 20, 2005 Author Share Posted March 20, 2005 Hi Watson. I wouldn't be too worried about the quals if I were you. There is quite a gap between the level of the average MS student vs the the averegea PhD student. If you're admitted as a PhD student, the odds are your level of preparation is MUCH stronger than that of the average MS student. The 50% pass rate (roughly, as I remember but could be higher) refers to all students, MS or PhD. But if a breakdown was available you'd find the number to be MUCH better for PhD students. I've heard of cases where students failed the quals twice but were still promoted to PhD candidacy because there are professors willing to advise these students. So it's not either-or, and being likeable is important too. If you don't mind that I ask, what are your other offers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanfordian Posted March 20, 2005 Author Share Posted March 20, 2005 Hi gstergia. The short answer to your question: the Econ Analysis program (which is at the GSB) is MUCH better. 1. The GSB (and bschools in general) are much better endowed. They support their students much better. In turn, the students are better prepared by the time of graduatation and place better. (See my earlier post). 2. Econ Analysis students can recruit at business schools as well as traditional Econ departments. The former pay much much better (i.e. 100%), along with more industry perks. There is also a much greater demand for business PhDs, since there are so few of them. The academic job market for Econ PhDs is comparatively saturated. 3. The admission process for the Economic Analysis program (as well for the GSB in general) is much more competitive. They take 3-5 students a year, compared to 25-30 at Economics. UBC is a great place and that's known (at least within the academic circle). If you do really well there (either as a BA or MA) that will count in your favor. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalhown Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 Dr.Watson and Mr.Stanfordian, I want to stress that besides the statistics on quals pass rate there is an equally (un)supported rumor that Stanford accepts TWICE the students it can fund (what I heard is: profs sum up how many students they can feed. Normal schools accept approximately this number of grads, while Stanf accepts TWICE that number). Stanfordian, it'd be nice to hear a comment on that too. However, I think the most sucking part in this 50/50 policy is not the substantial chance of being expelled, but rather the general atmosphere among students... I have a very close friend studying at top-5 grad.program with the same 50% dropout rate. She says it was unbelievably shocking for her to enter this cutthroat society where everyone treats you as a rival and works hard to discredit you in the eyes of the faculty (as I understood quals are graded in a personal way, so you must be a straight-A and a profs' favored fruit to successfully pass). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEPHDWANNABE Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 What about a student that already has an MS entering the PhD program? Will he even have to take quals since he already has gotten in? I didn't apply to Stanford but I most likely will after completion of my MS wherever I decide to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanfordian Posted March 20, 2005 Author Share Posted March 20, 2005 hi Kalhown. I'm a bit surprised by the rumor that you're describing. So suppose if that was true, how would students at Stanford expect to fund their studies? Certainly, I have not heard of cases whether a PhD student is expected to pay out of his/her own pocket! Remember, an MS student is never guaranteed funding, so that's that. But for PhD students funding in one form or another can always be expected. Some people (the really brilliant ones) are guaranteed 3-4 years of funding at the outset. For most other students, funding is guaranteed for one year. But after that year, so long as the student has passed the qualifying exam (which shouldn't be too hard for students admitted to the PhD track), it's very easy to find funding with some professor by taking part in a research project. The way that things work at Stanford's engineering school (which is not how it works at Sciences & Humanities) is that most of the funding is held at the level of the individual professors. Some professors have millions of dollars in grants and they hire many many students. For that reason, the engineering school only rarely award a student more than one year of guaranteed funding, because it wants to encourage students to seek out professors, as well as to encourage professors to write grant proposals. (And that strategy has worked well for Stanford. In terms of total university-wide research grants Stanford gets nearly double of what Harvard gets i.e. 850 million per year versus 500 million per year.) Also, I haven't really sensed the kind of hostile rivalry that you're describing. Students work hard, but for the most part the environment and lifestyle here (as well as on the west coast in general) is very relaxed. Stanford is also not harsh about grades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanfordian Posted March 20, 2005 Author Share Posted March 20, 2005 Hi eephdwannabe. The quals are a university requirement at Stanford (as well as most other places). You will have to pass them in order to be admitted to PhD candidacy, regardless of what degree level you have achieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalhown Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 Oh I'm sorry for being obscure. I didn't mean PhD students fund themselves. I meant, 50% are intentionally get kicked out in order to equalize profs' funds with the number of eaters (aka grad.students). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanfordian Posted March 20, 2005 Author Share Posted March 20, 2005 Hi kalhown. I don't quite understand why you see it as a way to "kick out" students. Most of the people who fail the exam are MS students who either never applied to the PhD track in the first place or were rejected. The opportunity for them to take the quals is kind of a "favor" on Stanford's part that allows them a quick way to move to the PhD program. Had they failed, they'd still get their MS just like what they set out to do in the first place. They were never "kicked out" by anyone. Remember, the provision for MS students to take the PhD quals is good for the students. If you go to a department where there is no such provision (such as Management Science and Engineering or Statistics), they have nearly 100% pass rate for their PhD students taking the quals but that's because they don't allow their MS students to take the exam. To move from the MS to the PhD there requires a separate application, which puts you along side external applicants and is much much harder. A lot of people I know got rejected that way even with 4.0 MS GPA. I'd say the system at EE is comparatively much easier! 50% is very, very high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEPHDWANNABE Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 How is the location? Is there a possibility to "live a little" in near Stanford area or is it pretty intense and social life free? Thanks for taking time to answer all our questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reactor Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 Stanfordian, thank you for your detailed/lenghty reply! Do you think I will need a "perfect" GRE quantitative score (800) to come to Stanfrd GSB Economic Analysis? Do you think applicants with lower scores i.e. Q770 are not considered? thank you so much for your responses! (you are not telling my something new but you confirm what I thought and this is important to me) :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanfordian Posted March 20, 2005 Author Share Posted March 20, 2005 I found what I think is the source of the rumor regarding Stanford's "funding/quals conspiracy" in the "EE Admissions" thread. I have to say that there really is little truth in what is said there. To summarize my earlier points. 1. Everyone who is admitted to Stanford's PhD program in any engineering department and subsequently passes the quals can expect funding one way or the other, even if it's not "guaranteed". There is no difficulty in finding research project which pays you tution + living expenses as well as providing you with a dissertation topic. I don't know of *any* EE PhD student who was left to starve or forced to TA. 2. The EE quals pass rate refers to the Masters plus PhD admits, collectively. (In fact most are MS students.) Because of that, 50% is in fact very very high. I don't see the point of a higher pass rate. What's the point if every MS ends up getting a PhD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanfordian Posted March 20, 2005 Author Share Posted March 20, 2005 hi gstergia. 770 is a bit on the low side. the trouble with the gre quant score is because there is so little range, even slighly less than perfect appears bad. However, if you have very strong grades from math courses (especially higher level undergrad courses like real/functional anlaysis, statistics, probability, etc.) these will help A LOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaitingMonster Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 :tup: I love Stanford!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickadee Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Dear stanfordian, Thank you for all the useful information! I'd really like to know the MS and PhD system in the Computer Science department. Can MS-only CS students also take qualifying exams like EE students? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanfordian Posted March 21, 2005 Author Share Posted March 21, 2005 hi chickadee. The CS department doesn't offer the same qualification procedure for MS students to move to the PhD program. Bascially, the only way for an MS student to move to the PhD program is to submit an application along with external applicants. (Also for this reason, the CS department almost never fails anyone on the quals, since all test-takers are PhD students all of whom very well prepared.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aivoges Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Hi stanfordian, Is GRE Verbal an important prerequisite for international applicants in the Department of Mechanical Eng. More specifically, I have co-authored in appx. 10 papers and have a good research/academic background in my MS level (working on 4 different projects, 2 years RA experience, graduate school topper), can my research experience outweight my weakness in V score (V400 for example)? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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