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princetongre · 04-07-2005, 08:55 PM

Dear Esteemed Members,

Your thoughts would be invaluable!

Is there a distinction between Bachelors vs. Masters degree holders when applying for Econ Phd. Is one preferred to the other? I have been admitted to UT, Austin with TA for PhD. But I also got UToronto MA (doctoral stream) admission with aid. Do you think its worth going to Toronto so that I may apply again and shoot for a higher ranked Univ to do my PhD?
This year, although I got into one top 10 univ, did not get aid. Austin is the best ranked that offered be aid.

Thank you all!!!

scheng75 · 04-07-2005, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princetongre

Dear Esteemed Members,

Your thoughts would be invaluable!

Is there a distinction between Bachelors vs. Masters degree holders when applying for Econ Phd. Is one preferred to the other? I have been admitted to UT, Austin with TA for PhD. But I also got UToronto MA (doctoral stream) admission with aid. Do you think its worth going to Toronto so that I may apply again and shoot for a higher ranked Univ to do my PhD?
This year, although I got into one top 10 univ, did not get aid. Austin is the best ranked that offered be aid.

Thank you all!!!

I believe the question to your BA vs. MA question is it depends. It depends on what schools you attended and what classes you took. Many international students come into the Econ Ph.D already with a masters, but many domestic students only have a BA. Of course I'm sure there are international students without masters and domestic students with masters, but I'm just thinking of the tendency. Since you are new to TM, I'll point at a few people's profiles for you to reference. Econ (The Official Profile & Stats Thread!!) is an international student with a masters who got into all the top schools with aid. Pinch23 (The Official Profile & Stats Thread!!) is a domestic student with a bachelors who got into many top schools like UCLA and Northwestern. And then there's Cliff23 (The Official Profile & Stats Thread!!) who is a domestic student with a bachelors who got into Chicago, Harvard, Yale....there are more but you can go ahead and search for them. Then there's gstergia (The Official Profile & Stats Thread!!), who's trying to do what you are doing. Go to UOT doctoral stream and apply to top 10 schools (mainly Stanford).

reactor · 04-07-2005, 09:25 PM

Ok, I'm calm. Please (I don't really care and I ask more from encyclopedic interest) WHEN DID YOU HEAR FROM TORONTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO?!?!?!?!?!?!

princetongre · 04-07-2005, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstergia

PLEASE TELL ME WHEN YOU GOT THE ADMIT FOR THE U of TORONTO DOC STREAM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'M WAITING TOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!!!

I sent you a PM. I received an email in the morning today. Good Luck to you!

princetongre · 04-07-2005, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheng75

I believe the question to your BA vs. MA question is it depends. It depends on what schools you attended and what classes you took. Many international students come into the Econ Ph.D already with a masters, but many domestic students only have a BA. Of course I'm sure there are international students without masters and domestic students with masters, but I'm just thinking of the tendency. Since you are new to TM, I'll point at a few people's profiles for you to reference. Econ (The Official Profile & Stats Thread!!) is an international student with a masters who got into all the top schools with aid. Pinch23 (The Official Profile & Stats Thread!!) is a domestic student with a bachelors who got into many top schools like UCLA and Northwestern. And then there's Cliff23 (The Official Profile & Stats Thread!!) who is a domestic student with a bachelors who got into Chicago, Harvard, Yale....there are more but you can go ahead and search for them. Then there's gstergia (The Official Profile & Stats Thread!!), who's trying to do what you are doing. Go to UOT doctoral stream and apply to top 10 schools (mainly Stanford).

You are right in that it is really a subjective question. I am an international student but got my BA (math, econ) from a domestic (US) not-so-prestigious liberal arts college. Anybody familiar with the UToronto program? How is it ranked? Where do MA graduates from Toronto usually go for their PhD's - in Toronto itself or somewhere else? Like gstergia, if I go to Toronto, I will be hoping to get into a top 10 for my Phd. Thank a bunch fellas. TM rocks!

vinnythepooh · 04-07-2005, 10:27 PM

Toronto is a good program. If it is the Doctoral stream, it would be a good idea, as it would be worth some brownie points in your apps to better schools later.

reactor · 04-08-2005, 12:44 AM

I'll try to remain neutral in this thread as you all know where I stand but I'm really curious about princetongre's profile (to see if I stand a chance for Toronto) and about if anyone will find anything about U of Toronto MA Doctoral Stream students' placement (not rumours but something with substance).

TheBrothersKaramazov · 04-08-2005, 01:47 AM

hi princetongre,

I don't know much about UT Austin, but i can tell you a bit about the doctoral stream at the University of Toronto:

Alot of students who do plan to go to UToronto for their PhD go into the doctoral stream because, as their Graduate Student Page says, the first year of the PhD is brutal. So, by taking the doctoral stream MA (well, in fact, you could even do it with the regular MA), you can get some of those first year core courses (micro, macro, metrics) out of the way.

If you got accepted into the doctoral stream, U of T must have given you a good hunk of money. I live just outside of Toronto (suburbia) and i don't really think Toronto is a very expensive place to live in terms of food... but rent is fairly expensive. In that sense, living in graduate housing on campus is actually much more affordable.

Academically, Toronto is a great school once you get past first year of the PhD. Up until then, you're pretty much just a number. The department is very large - both faculty and student wise. I have a macro prof who graduated in 1969 from Toronto, and even then he said that he felt like a small fish in a big pond (but he did get to spend a whole summer getting a one-on-one course with Tom Sargent when sargent was starting out.. but that's a whole other story). And this may be a negative aspect to U of T, because it's difficult to get letters of recommendation after only being there for 1 semester. (but , again, MA profs understand this.. and know how to write letters of recommendation for 1-semester-MA students)

If you are going to do an MA to simply move onto a US school afterwards, then I can't see why you wouldn't go there. The courses in the MA are somewhat easier than those at UBC, and for the PhD core courses that you might take, there are tutorials for the MA students. You've got plenty of funding. Most of the professors at Toronto come from the US

(which is actually the case in most strong econ departments here.. i think makes it difficult for CDN phds to get jobs here in canada). It always helps to have a few profs who have contacts in the US. In that sense, UT Austin might be better. If you can manage a good letter of recommendation from a prof who's worked with someone at say harvard or princeton, that's good!

I don't know. This is alot of rambling. If you have any questions, let me know. I know a number of people in my department who have applied (some got in, some not).
Gstergia, sorry to hear about your ding from Queens. That seems so ... strange considering you got accepted at UBC. Meh. Their MA is the most brutally difficult one in canada, without much payoff. You're better off without then.

reactor · 04-08-2005, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBrothersKaramazov

If you have any questions, let me know. I know a number of people in my department who have applied (some got in, some not).

You are giving me a heart attack...... The people in your department who did get in or not, did they apply THIS year? That is, is U of Toronto sending out both admits and rejects??? I got no e-mail !?!?!?

floplo · 04-08-2005, 03:37 PM

well, the problem is how safe you want to play it. If you are absolutely set on a Top10 school, pick Toronto (there the intention is probably to send you off to another PhD program anyway).
With UT-austin, they probably expect you to finish the degree there, which makes it harder to get LOR's etc to apply to a better ranked school (something like, why are you wasting our time and ressources when you don't want to be here). And regarding admissions, you would need a pretty compelling reason why Austin isn't good enough for you.

So compare the placement outcomes between UT phd's and Toronto phd's. if the difference is small enough, go to Toronto and shoot for a Top school. If you are riskaverse, go to Austin and get your degree there.

04-07-2005, 08:55 PM	#1 (permalink)
princetongre Trying to make mom and pop proud Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8	ECON - Austin or Toronto Dear Esteemed Members, Your thoughts would be invaluable! Is there a distinction between Bachelors vs. Masters degree holders when applying for Econ Phd. Is one preferred to the other? I have been admitted to UT, Austin with TA for PhD. But I also got UToronto MA (doctoral stream) admission with aid. Do you think its worth going to Toronto so that I may apply again and shoot for a higher ranked Univ to do my PhD? This year, although I got into one top 10 univ, did not get aid. Austin is the best ranked that offered be aid. Thank you all!!!

04-07-2005, 09:25 PM	#3 (permalink)
reactor only Loeb spaces! Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,072	Re: ECON - Austin or Toronto Ok, I'm calm. Please (I don't really care and I ask more from encyclopedic interest) WHEN DID YOU HEAR FROM TORONTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO?!?!?!?!?!?! _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ "It's easy to have faith in yourself and have discipline when you're a winner, when you're number one. What you've got to have is faith and discipline when you're not yet a winner." Vince Lombardi How to write a lazy proof Teaching yourself how to prove Since 2004 Reactor features (also) at: Econometric Analysis, 5th Edition ERRATA Last edited by gstergia : 04-07-2005 at 09:50 PM.

04-07-2005, 10:27 PM	#6 (permalink)
vinnythepooh Within my grasp! Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: London Posts: 174	Re: ECON - Austin or Toronto Toronto is a good program. If it is the Doctoral stream, it would be a good idea, as it would be worth some brownie points in your apps to better schools later. _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ ---------- http://www.vinayaksworld.com

04-08-2005, 12:44 AM	#7 (permalink)
reactor only Loeb spaces! Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,072	Re: ECON - Austin or Toronto I'll try to remain neutral in this thread as you all know where I stand but I'm really curious about princetongre's profile (to see if I stand a chance for Toronto) and about if anyone will find anything about U of Toronto MA Doctoral Stream students' placement (not rumours but something with substance). _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ "It's easy to have faith in yourself and have discipline when you're a winner, when you're number one. What you've got to have is faith and discipline when you're not yet a winner." Vince Lombardi How to write a lazy proof Teaching yourself how to prove Since 2004 Reactor features (also) at: Econometric Analysis, 5th Edition ERRATA

04-08-2005, 01:47 AM	#8 (permalink)
TheBrothersKaramazov Within my grasp! Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 349	Re: ECON - Austin or Toronto hi princetongre, I don't know much about UT Austin, but i can tell you a bit about the doctoral stream at the University of Toronto: Alot of students who do plan to go to UToronto for their PhD go into the doctoral stream because, as their Graduate Student Page says, the first year of the PhD is brutal. So, by taking the doctoral stream MA (well, in fact, you could even do it with the regular MA), you can get some of those first year core courses (micro, macro, metrics) out of the way. If you got accepted into the doctoral stream, U of T must have given you a good hunk of money. I live just outside of Toronto (suburbia) and i don't really think Toronto is a very expensive place to live in terms of food... but rent is fairly expensive. In that sense, living in graduate housing on campus is actually much more affordable. Academically, Toronto is a great school once you get past first year of the PhD. Up until then, you're pretty much just a number. The department is very large - both faculty and student wise. I have a macro prof who graduated in 1969 from Toronto, and even then he said that he felt like a small fish in a big pond (but he did get to spend a whole summer getting a one-on-one course with Tom Sargent when sargent was starting out.. but that's a whole other story). And this may be a negative aspect to U of T, because it's difficult to get letters of recommendation after only being there for 1 semester. (but , again, MA profs understand this.. and know how to write letters of recommendation for 1-semester-MA students) If you are going to do an MA to simply move onto a US school afterwards, then I can't see why you wouldn't go there. The courses in the MA are somewhat easier than those at UBC, and for the PhD core courses that you might take, there are tutorials for the MA students. You've got plenty of funding. Most of the professors at Toronto come from the US (which is actually the case in most strong econ departments here.. i think makes it difficult for CDN phds to get jobs here in canada). It always helps to have a few profs who have contacts in the US. In that sense, UT Austin might be better. If you can manage a good letter of recommendation from a prof who's worked with someone at say harvard or princeton, that's good! I don't know. This is alot of rambling. If you have any questions, let me know. I know a number of people in my department who have applied (some got in, some not). Gstergia, sorry to hear about your ding from Queens. That seems so ... strange considering you got accepted at UBC. Meh. Their MA is the most brutally difficult one in canada, without much payoff. You're better off without then.

04-08-2005, 03:37 PM	#10 (permalink)
floplo Within my grasp! Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 109	Re: ECON - Austin or Toronto well, the problem is how safe you want to play it. If you are absolutely set on a Top10 school, pick Toronto (there the intention is probably to send you off to another PhD program anyway). With UT-austin, they probably expect you to finish the degree there, which makes it harder to get LOR's etc to apply to a better ranked school (something like, why are you wasting our time and ressources when you don't want to be here). And regarding admissions, you would need a pretty compelling reason why Austin isn't good enough for you. So compare the placement outcomes between UT phd's and Toronto phd's. if the difference is small enough, go to Toronto and shoot for a Top school. If you are riskaverse, go to Austin and get your degree there.

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