Help Selecting the right universities for MS(CS)-1430GRE,(100/120)TOEFL[min expected]

[comet360]

Hi,
I'm applying for MS fall 2008 in Computer Science and engineering.With the following scores in required tests,What universities can i apply for admission.
GRE score - 1430(790Q+640V) ,
TOEFL(oct21) expecting a minimum of 100/120
cgpa of 8.1/10 (upto 6th semester)
12th CBSE 89%
10th CBSE 88%
Extra/Co Curriculars : school level and some college level participation and organising.nothing fancy
Final year project : Enery efficient Algorithm for wireless sensor network

I'm looking for a university which offers any of the following courses.
1. Networks
2. operating systems

The main purpose why i wish to pursue an ms is for a good/great job in the us,thus campus recruitments would be the primary criteria for selection.
Also since the cost of tuition and living are also very high,universities that offer any form of aid to MS candidates are more suitable.

With what i have seen on the net.. here is a list of universities that i am interested in
1.University of California–Berkeley
2.Carnegie Mellon University (PA)
3. University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
4. University of Texas - Austin

the problem being that .. all the top universities are very lucrative and i'm not in a position to selected any properly.

Also i am not aware of the level of funding provided by the universities.

It would be very helpful if you can guide me in the direction to select the right universities.


Aravind Raj

[CalmLogic]

Regarding funding, hopefully others will also post about that since it is a topic that really needs to be discussed more in this forum. It is certainly not easy getting funding for an M.S. degree, especially, it seems, for the first semester. Though you are interested in an M.S. degree, it may be helpful to see which universities offer the most funding for their computer science PhD programs since these universities may offer more funding to M.S. students as well:

Computer Science Rankings — PhDs.org Graduate School Guide

Though the words that best describe M.S. funding are "limited" and "competitive," some posters to this forum have been rather hopeful:

It depends on the university's policy. If you're an M.S. student, they probably won't offer you an RA/TA ship in the first semester anyway. But once you're there, you can always apply for a TA-ship. They can't turn you down then.

Most international students know this: once you have one foot in the door....

The purpose of the financial statement is really only for them to assess if they ought to admit you without funding. You see, I believe the logic goes like this:

M.S. funding logic
If candidate fits profile and is exceptional: offer admission and funding
If candidate is strong but does not fit profile, but has enough money to attend for 1-semester so we can assess him during his 1st semester at no risk to us: offer admission without funding.
If candidate is strong but lacks certain things, and has no money to attend: do not offer admission at all. Too risky.
If candidate is weak: do not offer admission at all.

But don't quote me on that.

http://www.urch.com/forums/financial...k-loan-ms.html (Views on full bank loan for MS ...)

According to the above logic, it would seem possible that going to a lower-ranking school may increase your chances for funding, though certainly universities vary widely regarding their ability to fund M.S. students. Another conjecture: If you have a greater chance of getting an RA position at a slightly lower-ranking school, gaining valuable RA experience may possibly help your resume more than having gone to the somewhat higher-ranking school.

An optimistic post about paying for grad school:

My suggestion is to always go to the best possible university you can.

You can surely find some sort of funding at GaTech in the form of RA/TA's.

...You can make up the money you lost for MS within 6 months after graduation.

http://www.urch.com/forums/admission...-decision.html (decision)

For some less optimistic comments about funding, see my posts here (Please Help!!!), but keep in mind I still haven't even applied to grad school yet.

Regarding operating systems, it seems Berkeley has the best program for operating systems and computer architecture, especially since they have Dr. David Patterson and the research dollars that he attracts. However, you can have most of the "David Patterson experience" for free by watching his webcasts.

Similarly, USNews ranked Berkeley #1 for computer systems. However, getting into Berkeley is a major challenge, even for an M.S. degree. Since they have so many PhD applicants that are rejected, I don't know what your odds are, especially since they probably offer some of their rejected PhD applicants admission into their M.S. program. For an example profile of someone admitted into Berkeley's MS program:

http://www.urch.com/forums/admission...lowed-phd.html

A rejection letter from Berkeley:

http://www.urch.com/forums/admission...-berkeley.html (News from Berkeley !)

For networking, I don't know who is best, but for a list of safety schools (lower-ranked universities) that offer M.S. programs in networking:

http://www.urch.com/forums/489483-post6.html

Regarding CMU, it is "mission impossible" trying to be admitted into their PhD computer science program. However, since you are interested in an M.S. degree, you have a much greater chance. To my knowledge, CMU does not offer a traditional M.S. in Computer Science degree except for CMU undergraduates who complete a fifth year. However, they do have academic and professional M.S. programs that seem much easier to get into, e.g.:

The Information Networking Institute (INI)

Carnegie Mellon University - Master of Science in Information Technology - Very Large Information Systems - MSIT VLIS

Masters of Information Systems Management (MIS) @ Carnegie Mellon

- Carnegie Mellon University - Master of Software Engineering Homepage

It seems the detractor for applying for an M.S. at CMU is the obviously high tuition costs combined with the typical problems of getting M.S. funding:

From the "Indian grad" perspective, I think you should apply to CMU MS-CS (if thats what you were referring to).

CMU is mighty expensive, many people don't apply, and since they don't fund most of their MS candidates, they are a little lenient in granting MS admits.

CMU-PhD however is top-notch.
(out of reach).

You could perhaps try the INI program if you have the $$$$, the acceptance for that program is pretty high.

http://www.urch.com/forums/computer-...ances-cmu.html (Hi! Rate my chances at CMU...)

So with CMU, the question is: Is the tuition worth it? Previously, I have speculated that the answer is "maybe not," at least for their professional (non-academic) MS degrees:

Though CMU would definitely provide much better job placement than say the University of Arizona, with the money I save I could fly across the country for job interviews (New York City, Silicon Valley, etc.) not only for my first job but for my entire career.

According to PayScale.com, the median salary for someone with an MS in Software Engineering from CMU is $78,030. However, the highest pay went to graduates of three other programs:

Median Salary:
National University - $90,132
Seattle University - $84,048
DePaul Univeristy - $81,677

...I assume the difference in pay is mostly because those who went to National University (which based in San Diego) were more likely to work in San Diego and Silicon Valley where there is a higher cost of living.

On the other hand, everything is relative to your future job prospects. If you eventually land a job in New York City paying $200,000 a year, then $60,000 doesn't seem so high for tuition. Then again, any job that pays such a high salary will likely be more stressful and may even accelerate the aging process.

http://www.urch.com/forums/computer-...gineering.html (Got admit from CMU - Masters in Software Engineering)

BTW, at least 2 years ago, there wasn't an application fee to apply to some of CMU's M.S. programs:

List of universities with no application fee

->Carnegie Mellon University (CS PhD Program)
->Carnegie Mellon University (MS-INI Program)
->Johns Hopkins University
->University of Utah (only CS MS/PhD programs)
->University of Rochester
->Vanderbilt University
->Drexel University
->University of Dayton - No TOEFL Score Required too

http://www.urch.com/forums/graduate-...chances-6.html (Plz Evaluate My chances)

Regarding UIUC, they offer a Master of Computer Science (like an M.S. degree but without a thesis) via distance learning and they don't seem to be too selective for who is admitted:

Programs | Online Degree and Certificate Programs | Computer Science | University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

This may mean that it is not-too-difficult to be admitted into their traditional M.S. degree program for computer science.

Regarding UT at Austin:

UIUC is very good for Networks...
Cornell's PhD program *might* (not necessarily) be more reputed that the one from UIUC but Austin doesn't stand a chance against the mighty UIUC.

http://www.urch.com/forums/admission...ut-austin.html (CS PhD : UIUC vs UT Austin)

I would say UIUC>>>UT>RICE.

UIUC - amazing place for research because there is NOTHING else to do in U-C.

The other 2 are kind of a toss up, but I tend to believe that UTA has a better reputation.

UT only funds top 10% of new students. Those that did not get funding, MAY get it next year. But there is no guarantee (especially if you are foreign).

http://www.urch.com/forums/admission...ice-vs-ut.html (UIUC vs. Rice vs. UT)

For all of these schools, they should be able to provide you with statistics regarding the number of M.S. applicants each year and the number of admitted students. I would also ask each school you are interested in about the percentage/number of M.S. students who are given RA or TA positions. If funding is the top priority, then the ideal would probably be a school with moderate tuition and above-average funding for M.S. students.

Regarding TOEFL, you seem to be on target to meet or exceed minimum score requirements for the TOEFL-iBT:

TOEFL and TSE
Do I need to take the TOEFL and TSE?
A satisfactory command of the English language is required for admission to the University of Washington Graduate School. Applicants, including transfers, who are not citizens of the United States on the date of admission and whose native language is other than English, must submit a TOEFL-iBT score, or TOEFL (CBT or PBT) and TSE scores. The scores must be less than two years old. Exceptions and minimum scores are outlined below.

TOEFL-iBT: The TOEFL-iBT is currently being phased in around the world. It will replace the TOEFL (CBT & PBT) and the TSE. The minimum TOEFL-iBT score is 100, including at least 28 on the Speaking section of the test (this is the section that replaces the TSE) and at least 70 combined on the other sections. Applicants who submit a TOEFL-iBT score DO NOT need to submit a TSE score.
TOEFL (CBT or PBT): Minimun score of at least 250 (computer) or 600 (paper).

PhD/MS Prospective Applicants FAQ

The minimum score for Next Generation TOEFL (iBT) is 68.

Required Application Materials/Data | EECS at UC Berkeley

(I would think a good TOEFL score that is significantly above the minimum requirements could help increase your chances of getting a TA position.)

[comet360]

Hi Calmlogic,

I would first like to thank you for spending time to answer my query in such detail. I was wondering if I could trouble you more with some more questions that I can't get answers.

1.
Given that funding is not a concern at all, on the logic that it is possible to earn the money spent in pursuing a masters degree within a year or so of employment in the us, what are my chances of admission to top 10 or 20 ranked universities ,specifically, which ones.
Also myself being an international student (Indian), I have assumed that given that I complete my masters from a top ranked university with decent academics, the prospects of working in the us with a good pay are very realistic or close to 90%.
So is it not true then that it is better to pursue MS from a reputed university without funding, than to do so with funding but increasing the chances of not obtaining a job with a good pay or not obtaining a job at all.

2.

• I am more interested in courses that focus on preparing graduate for the industry.

• CMU INI offers two courses which are highly suitable but with exorbitant tuition fees
• Also Carnegie Mellon - School of engineering offers “Engineering and Technology Innovation Management MS program”- which is a 1 year accelerated MS, the problem being that it start from Jan .so application deadline are totally different.
•The attractive campus recruitment statistics make these programs very lucrative for me.


Can you guide me regarding other MS programs that are of similar nature? (i.e. Courses dealing both with MS CS and Management).

3. What should be my probable list of colleges that I should be applying to? (MS in CS and MS in a course similar to that mentioned in (2)).

[CalmLogic]

• CMU INI offers two courses which are highly suitable but with exorbitant tuition fees

According to the post below, they often/usually give a $20,000 tuition waiver, but the program is still relatively expensive:

http://www.urch.com/forums/admission...u-ini-aid.html (In @ CMU INI with aid)

3. What should be my probable list of colleges that I should be applying to? (MS in CS and MS in a course similar to that mentioned in (2)).

I don't know. First, you need to find the programs that are best suited for your career interests, and a traditional CS degree, as you say, is often not the most practical degree compared to a degree in networking, etc.

Can you guide me regarding other MS programs that are of similar nature? (i.e. Courses dealing both with MS CS and Management).

What exactly are your career goals? Do you want to be a program manager? Do you like working with people?

Since I am U.S. citizen by birth, I am not the most familiar with how companies recruit H1B workers. Certainly, many of the graduates at CS grad programs are international students, so there must be significant recruiting going on at the CS grad programs that are either high ranking or just very large. Also, from what I gather, getting any graduate degree in the US gives you legal priority for getting an H1B.

For jobs that may be more visa-friendly:

All h1b computer science jobs | Indeed.com

[CalmLogic]

Regarding your concern about job recruitment, you may not have to worry at all, as long as you are willing to re-locate if necessary:

2. I think MS in CS always has good job prospects. You shouldn't have to worry about being able to get a job.

3. Highly doubtful to get aid for an MS - I can just say this from experience. However, there might be schools that allow MS students to TA. You can always get loans I think. I'm not too clear on that for international students.

http://www.urch.com/forums/graduate-...questions.html (Got questions?)

Another point is that, at least for US graduates, most of them get jobs from networking with others, previous employers (where they got internships), job ads, etc. rather than from on-campus recruiting. This is also the case at top schools like CMU, though probably to a lesser degree.

[CalmLogic]

A site that lists some non-traditional CS grad programs:

Graduate School In CS Vs IT Vs Informatics « Admission Source

2 other links from the same site:
Computer Science Research Work being done at various Universities « Admission Source

Computer Science Admission Requirements of Top USA Schools « Admission Source