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Valhalla · 03-06-2008, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archuleta7

So with that said, I strongly consider Snappy the Crab's post to be strongly offensive, and against a majority of the things you had just gone over.
.

PLEASE BOY STOP THIS! This leads only into a dead-end ok? Why do you discuss this here and ask erin for help? If you didn't like snappy's comment or mine: Write us PM's ok? You are an adult (I guess)... behave like one...

archuleta7 · 03-06-2008, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valhalla

PLEASE BOY STOP THIS! This leads only into a dead-end ok? Why do you discuss this here and ask erin for help? If you didn't like snappy's comment or mine: Write us PM's ok? You are an adult (I guess)... behave like one...

I don't understand how that sentence got you that upset...

So why am I the bad guy in this entire situation, and he's entirely the good guy.

He was rude. End of story.

archuleta7 · 03-06-2008, 11:00 PM

And I do believe I am behaving like an adult, because I'm not attacking or insulting anyone. There are other posters who have done this, and you're telling me that they don't need to grow up?

**Erin** · 03-06-2008, 11:15 PM

I've just scanned a few of the posts. It seems pretty evident that some toes have been stepped on, and I'd like people to take that into consideration when posting. Feel free to state your piece, and then hope for the best.

Honestly, I can understand all points of view, and again, as is so common on the internet, I believe that it's going to be difficult to reach a resolution that will satisfy all involved.

I'm inclined to allow those involved to express themselves once or twice, but I don't want to see this devolve into a back-and-forth flame war. (If it does, I'll have to close the thread.)

I'm sure you're all good people, and we would get along just fine in real life.

archuleta7 · 03-06-2008, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erin

I've just scanned a few of the posts. It seems pretty evident that some toes have been stepped on, and I'd like people to take that into consideration when posting. Feel free to state your piece, and then hope for the best.

Honestly, I can understand all points of view, and again, as is so common on the internet, I believe that it's going to be difficult to reach a resolution that will satisfy all involved.

I'm inclined to allow those involved to express themselves once or twice, but I don't want to see this devolve into a back-and-forth flame war. (If it does, I'll have to close the thread.)

I'm sure you're all good people, and we would get along just fine in real life.

Thanks again for that. I'm done with my arguing, I just felt the need to get my point across, because I feel that respect is so important in the world we live in, but I'm sure you guys are great people. I'm sorry for any frustration I have caused. And I hope you guys get into the colleges you all are hoping for. God bless

scheng75 · 03-07-2008, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archuleta7

Thanks again for that. I'm done with my arguing, I just felt the need to get my point across, because I feel that respect is so important in the world we live in, but I'm sure you guys are great people. I'm sorry for any frustration I have caused. And I hope you guys get into the colleges you all are hoping for. God bless

Welcome archuleta7 to our lovely TM community! I have to say this is usually a very tense time on this board (lots of people waiting for admission results) and this probably led to the very edgy comments people are making. I know most of these posters over the last few years and they are all usually very helpful, many of them might have just spent all night studying or been checking admission websites 24/7 and are on the crabby side. All the moderators are volunteers and we try very hard to keep this place clean, intellectual and respectful. Erin actually does not profit from these boards so considering we are all doing this out of the goodness of our hearts and the desire to serve the community, we do feel like we can do whatever we like within reason.

I'm sorry that people just started to call you a cheater (I think that was unnecessary), but considering that most of us have a few years on you, it might benefit you to consider listening to some of us. Schools and professors often treat "cheating" differently and define "cheating" different but in the strictest definition, your behavior would be consider cheating, whether it's one problem or six, whether it matches your answers or not. When I was in high school more than 10 years ago, I compared my take home exam with a classmate at school and someone reported it to the teacher. Though my classmate did not change ANY answer on his test and I only changed ONE answer, the teacher still gave us both a F on the test. And because my friend didn't fess up right away, he was dropped from the Honors program from our HS. We were actually A+ students when this happened, but the teacher didn't care whether or not we were A+ students nor the fact that only one of us changed one answer. We were both perfectionists as you can see and really didn't know we were "cheating" or else we wouldn't do it so publicly in another class where we could be reported. So, all this to say that you may not consider your action to be cheating but professors might disagree.

I know your case is slightly different because your professor said you can work in groups but that is usually limited to your classmates (regardless of the fact that they are confused) and not Econ Ph.D students. I'm not questioning your morality but I have to warn you that some professors would consider your action cheating (getting help from people outside of your class) and will fail you in the class. Hope that was helpful and not disrespectful.

Welcome again!!!

snappythecrab · 03-07-2008, 05:25 AM

edit:

I've spoken my peace both in the community and with Erin. Cheating is something which I feel strongly about. I think it is obvious to many that cheating, academic dishonesty, whatever, was taking place. That has no place here, and I want to commend those that have stepped up to do the right thing.

While generally I agree with Erin, and think that he has done a great job building an internet community, in his attempt to make this place inclusive, in this instance, he has missed the mark. Allowing dishonesty to the point of nearly encouraging it(nor is it to say that it's unethical) does not make the forums inclusive. I do not know much about what goes on outside of the Economics forum, but ours is populated by very serious students, PhD students, and Professors. I cannot immagine many of those people being willing to stick around if this is to contine.

I for one am not going to stick around for it. After three years here, I quit.

Valhalla · 03-07-2008, 05:25 PM

I feel really sorry to hear that..

bye
all the best

econphilomath · 03-07-2008, 06:34 PM

I am really sorry to hear snappythecrab is leaving. He has made this forum a better place to hang out. Since this seems like the only way to express discontent, I also have some criticism regarding the way moderators throw their weight around the forums like a class room bully. I think that over all, things run generally really smooth, people get along quite nicely and besides getting info, we have a lots of fun with the community of TMers. If it was not so, we could just post a wiki and forget the forum.

My critic is that in general I feel there are little checks and balances regarding the way moderators do there business. As a member one is subjected to very general forum rules that are interpreted at the moderators discretion. I understand that is impossible to change. However, I believe these have been used on ocasion, with a lack of judgment for example by asquare at the econ forum and this sometimes makes one feel part of a police-state rather than a community of friends. I currently post afraid I might get banned for my post "not being informative enough". It quite frankly doesn't feel good at all and I know this feeling is shared by many other posters.

I think that asquare does a good job in general, his posts are very informative. However, I think he is maybe is too quick to enforce the rules which are very loose to interpretations. I almost feel he has a grudge on me and is looking for an excuse to throw me out! I think it is not so because other TMers have mentioned the same thing to me.

I humbly suggest being a little more patient, giving warnings or steering the conversation as a better way to moderate that to throw your weight around by threatening people to be banned or editing there posts. I guess this is hard to do, but trying not to be so confrontational will help people feel "part" of the community and not alienate people like snappythecrab and me.

Thats my 2 cents. BTW, I have many "admits" and I have no strict need to come back to TM. I would like to do so and help the next generation for time to time, but honestly, moderators need to relax just a little. Right now, there are just a little to "trigger happy".

03-06-2008, 11:15 PM	#14 (permalink)
Erin So many things to do... Forum Admin Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: USA Posts: 8,210	I've just scanned a few of the posts. It seems pretty evident that some toes have been stepped on, and I'd like people to take that into consideration when posting. Feel free to state your piece, and then hope for the best. Honestly, I can understand all points of view, and again, as is so common on the internet, I believe that it's going to be difficult to reach a resolution that will satisfy all involved. I'm inclined to allow those involved to express themselves once or twice, but I don't want to see this devolve into a back-and-forth flame war. (If it does, I'll have to close the thread.) I'm sure you're all good people, and we would get along just fine in real life. _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ [Say 'hi'!] [Google Interviews Erin] [San Francisco Chronicle Interviews Erin]

03-07-2008, 05:25 AM	#17 (permalink)
snappythecrab TestMagic Guru-in-Training Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 689	edit: I've spoken my peace both in the community and with Erin. Cheating is something which I feel strongly about. I think it is obvious to many that cheating, academic dishonesty, whatever, was taking place. That has no place here, and I want to commend those that have stepped up to do the right thing. While generally I agree with Erin, and think that he has done a great job building an internet community, in his attempt to make this place inclusive, in this instance, he has missed the mark. Allowing dishonesty to the point of nearly encouraging it(nor is it to say that it's unethical) does not make the forums inclusive. I do not know much about what goes on outside of the Economics forum, but ours is populated by very serious students, PhD students, and Professors. I cannot immagine many of those people being willing to stick around if this is to contine. I for one am not going to stick around for it. After three years here, I quit. _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ University of Wisconsin - Madison: Took my Masters and ran. Last edited by snappythecrab : 03-07-2008 at 02:59 PM.

03-07-2008, 05:25 PM	#18 (permalink)
Valhalla Within my grasp! Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 470	I feel really sorry to hear that.. bye all the best _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ "The sciences do not try to explain, they hardly even try to interpret, they mainly make models. By a model is meant a mathematical construct, which with the addition of certain verbal interpretations, describes observed phenomena. The justification of such a mathematical construct is solely and precisely that it is expected to work." John von Neumann

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03-06-2008, 11:00 PM	#13 (permalink)
archuleta7 Trying to make mom and pop proud Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 15	And I do believe I am behaving like an adult, because I'm not attacking or insulting anyone. There are other posters who have done this, and you're telling me that they don't need to grow up?

03-07-2008, 06:34 PM	#19 (permalink)
econphilomath Adriannn! Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,255	I am really sorry to hear snappythecrab is leaving. He has made this forum a better place to hang out. Since this seems like the only way to express discontent, I also have some criticism regarding the way moderators throw their weight around the forums like a class room bully. I think that over all, things run generally really smooth, people get along quite nicely and besides getting info, we have a lots of fun with the community of TMers. If it was not so, we could just post a wiki and forget the forum. My critic is that in general I feel there are little checks and balances regarding the way moderators do there business. As a member one is subjected to very general forum rules that are interpreted at the moderators discretion. I understand that is impossible to change. However, I believe these have been used on ocasion, with a lack of judgment for example by asquare at the econ forum and this sometimes makes one feel part of a police-state rather than a community of friends. I currently post afraid I might get banned for my post "not being informative enough". It quite frankly doesn't feel good at all and I know this feeling is shared by many other posters. I think that asquare does a good job in general, his posts are very informative. However, I think he is maybe is too quick to enforce the rules which are very loose to interpretations. I almost feel he has a grudge on me and is looking for an excuse to throw me out! I think it is not so because other TMers have mentioned the same thing to me. I humbly suggest being a little more patient, giving warnings or steering the conversation as a better way to moderate that to throw your weight around by threatening people to be banned or editing there posts. I guess this is hard to do, but trying not to be so confrontational will help people feel "part" of the community and not alienate people like snappythecrab and me. Thats my 2 cents. BTW, I have many "admits" and I have no strict need to come back to TM. I would like to do so and help the next generation for time to time, but honestly, moderators need to relax just a little. Right now, there are just a little to "trigger happy".

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