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Thread: Brent - Ur help on Subordinate Clause

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    Brent - Ur help on Subordinate Clause

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    Hi! Brent

    It says - Subordinate Clauses don't have Subject or Verb and don't stand on its own as a meaningful sentence.

    Ex - When the auditors left.

    Help me in understanding this. In above example, aren't 'auditors' the subject. Isn't 'left' a verb form. Yes, the sentence isn't making any sense though.

    Is this an example of a Subordinate Clause?

    What if we drop 'when' and rewrite it as 'The auditors left'

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    Anyone???

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    Ankylosaurus Forum Admin Erin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarunlakhani View Post
    It says - Subordinate Clauses don't have Subject or Verb and don't stand on its own as a meaningful sentence.

    Ex - When the auditors left.

    Help me in understanding this. In above example, aren't 'auditors' the subject. Isn't 'left' a verb form. Yes, the sentence isn't making any sense though.

    Is this an example of a Subordinate Clause?

    What if we drop 'when' and rewrite it as 'The auditors left'
    Hmm... This is the second question I'm answering for Brent. Hope that's okay.

    First, what's "It"? The referent is unclear here.

    But seriously, where'd you see that? That's wrong. That sounds like an attempt to define a sentence fragment, not a subordinate clause.

    At any rate, a subordinate clause is basically a sentence with a subordinating conjunction in front of it, for example, because I need to slake my thirst​.
    ☼ Waiting for Godot

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    GRE-GMAT Instructor Brent Hanneson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarunlakhani View Post
    Hi! Brent

    It says - Subordinate Clauses don't have Subject or Verb and don't stand on its own as a meaningful sentence.

    Ex - When the auditors left.

    Help me in understanding this. In above example, aren't 'auditors' the subject. Isn't 'left' a verb form. Yes, the sentence isn't making any sense though.

    Is this an example of a Subordinate Clause?

    What if we drop 'when' and rewrite it as 'The auditors left'
    Hi tarunlakhani,

    I didn't notice your post until just now - sorry.
    A subordinate clause (also known as a dependent clause) has a subject and a verb, but the clause expresses an incomplete thought.

    "When the auditors left" is a dependent clause because it doesn't express a complete thought. We still need something after "left" (as in "When the auditors left, everyone cheered.")
    In the sentence "When the auditors left, everyone cheered," the auditors is the subject of the dependent clause, and everyone is the subject of the independent clause.

    The sentence "The auditors left" is an independent clause since it expresses a complete thought. The auditors is the subject and left is the verb.

    Cheers,
    Brent

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    Hmm... This is the second question I'm answering for Brent. Hope that's okay.

    First, what's "It"? The referent is unclear here.

    But seriously, where'd you see that? That's wrong. That sounds like an attempt to define a sentence fragment, not a subordinate clause.

    At any rate, a subordinate clause is basically a sentence with a subordinating conjunction in front of it, for example, because I need to slake my thirst​.
    Hi! Erin/Brent,
    Hmnn.... OK. So subordinate clause has a subject & a verb like an independent clause. The only difference being that it(subordinate clause) cannot stand on its own. I also understand that subordinate clause is introduced by a conjunction. Hope i am correct. Many thanks!

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    GRE-GMAT Instructor Brent Hanneson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarunlakhani View Post
    Hi! Erin/Brent,
    Hmnn.... OK. So subordinate clause has a subject & a verb like an independent clause. The only difference being that it(subordinate clause) cannot stand on its own. I also understand that subordinate clause is introduced by a conjunction. Hope i am correct. Many thanks!
    You are definitely correct about the clause (clause = subject + verb)

    The conjunction part, however, is not correct.

    Example: "Although Joe likes beans, he does not like carrots"
    The dependent clause is separated from the independent clause by a comma (correct).

    Now if we have 2 independent clauses in a sentence, there are two ways to separate them.
    1) conjunction + comma
    2) semicolon

    Example:
    Joe likes beans, and Bob likes potatoes. (correct)
    Joe likes beans; Bob likes potatoes. (correct)
    Joe likes beans, Bob likes potatoes. (incorrect)
    Joe likes beans and Bob likes potatoes. (incorrect)

    Cheers,
    Brent

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Hanneson View Post
    You are definitely correct about the clause (clause = subject + verb)

    The conjunction part, however, is not correct.

    Example: "Although Joe likes beans, he does not like carrots"
    The dependent clause is separated from the independent clause by a comma (correct).

    Now if we have 2 independent clauses in a sentence, there are two ways to separate them.
    1) conjunction + comma
    2) semicolon

    Example:
    Joe likes beans, and Bob likes potatoes. (correct)
    Joe likes beans; Bob likes potatoes. (correct)
    Joe likes beans, Bob likes potatoes. (incorrect)
    Joe likes beans and Bob likes potatoes. (incorrect)

    Cheers,
    Brent
    Thanks Brent. I need to tighten up my English.

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    Ankylosaurus Forum Admin Erin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarunlakhani View Post
    Hi! Erin/Brent,
    Hmnn.... OK. So subordinate clause has a subject & a verb like an independent clause. The only difference being that it(subordinate clause) cannot stand on its own. I also understand that subordinate clause is introduced by a conjunction. Hope i am correct. Many thanks!
    I'd say that's fairly accurate, except as Brent mentioned, you should specify which type of conjunction, as there are several:
    • Coordinating conjunctions: and, but, so, yet, etc.
    • Correlative conjunctions: either… or…, neither… nor…, not only… but also…, etc.
    • Subordinating conjunctions: if, because, when, where, etc.
    We also have relative pronouns, such as who, what, that, and a few others that serve a similar function, so for the purposes of the grammar on standardized tests, you may want to brush up on those, too.
    ☼ Waiting for Godot

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    All this is great info. many thanks to Brent and Erin, and tarun for starting this thread.
    But can you guys put this into context and give some examples as to how GMAT can use these rules in particular to frame some of the SC prompts? (tricky, tough ones.) That would be a huge help and, even better, a great conclusion to this thread.

    Thanks guys!

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    Ankylosaurus Forum Admin Erin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lav View Post
    All this is great info. many thanks to Brent and Erin, and tarun for starting this thread.
    But can you guys put this into context and give some examples as to how GMAT can use these rules in particular to frame some of the SC prompts? (tricky, tough ones.) That would be a huge help and, even better, a great conclusion to this thread.
    Hi, Lav. Just to respond to your question so that I don't 'leave you hanging', so to speak.

    It takes quite some time to put together a decent GMAT sentence correction question, at least one hour, but probably more to make it realistic. (The real GMAT will spend several hours on a single question.) So, although I wish I had the time to sit down and craft some questions to post here, the truth of the matter is that the best I can do is add this to my mental to-do list and hope that I can cross it off someday.

    But very briefly--there are several ways that GMAT will test subordination. The easiest is simply to put run-on sentences in the wrong answer choices. More complicated is testing whether a clause should be subordinated, i.e., whether presented information is less important than other information in the sentence. This particular grammar point has come up several times in the past, and I've discussed it a bit. (The problem, of course, is finding the discussion!)

    Hope that points you in the right direction.

    Erin
    ☼ Waiting for Godot

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