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madabouteco · 2006 March 22nd, 04:52 PM

admission process is really randon..i got a reject from a real low ranked place and an acceptance from a top 25 US school!!now what would you call that!!

EPL-Sci · 2006 March 22nd, 05:03 PM

@madabouteco: No offense, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they just randomly pick people. It could just mean that they use different criteria!

By the way, it seems pretty interesting to me how some of the future econ grad students in this thread don't seem to care very much about accuracy when talking about probability ;-)

madabouteco · 2006 March 22nd, 05:11 PM

@EPL-Sci
that might be true in some cases like mine.
anyways , atleast we can say that randomness lies in the criterion chosen for selection.

Tatonnement · 2006 March 22nd, 06:00 PM

I don't think the randomness discussion is going anywhere. The point was just that people get overlooked. When I'd applied to grad school I was turned down by the place where I now teach. I remember taking the rejections personally, which of course was silly. But now looking at it from the other side I probably would have turned myself down too. I had a fine but undistinguished record, and we get many, many applicants who fall in that bin.

It's now getting to be so that we now expect students to take math every year in school, and many of them to take graduate level math. Students who complete requirements of econ majors at good schools with almost all A's often end up well down on the list.

vagabond_shoes · 2006 March 22nd, 06:05 PM

Tatonnement you rule, thanks for your comments!

Larami · 2006 March 22nd, 06:06 PM

Maybe pseudo-random. Their "search algorithm" probably hits points the dept feels important, but may skip over some things we feel are important.

JKRIS · 2006 March 22nd, 07:19 PM

During the application process, I learnt that departments rank their applicants based on several criteria like grades, test scores, fit in the program and so on. Also different programs give wieght criteria differently.

This is remarakably similar to the process in ranking universities. Rankings at econphd.net places Texas A&M at 44 and the study by Kalaitzidakis et al places the same school at 76. NC State is top 50 in USNEWS but around 90 according to econphd.net.

So the process is not random - rather it is not consistent from program to program.

Tatonnement · 2006 March 22nd, 07:42 PM

One other note while I'm whiling away my day...

In my experience the statement of purpose is worth very very little. Unless there's a gap in the record which needs to be explained (which isn't very common), they convey close to zero information.

Finally, I think the random/non-random discussion is a distinction without a difference. It's not just that different departments value components differently, but different committee memebers do to. It's like Harsanyi purification: conditioning on unobserved preferences, it's not random but to an outside observer it looks like the outcome of random draw (i.e. a mixed strategy).

vagabond_shoes · 2006 March 22nd, 07:57 PM

Tatonnement, since you know from the other side and you say the statement of purpose doesn't matter, how much does QGRE matter? Is it just a quick way cut off, i.e. only those above Q750 are reviewed or is it also a main decision variable?

associate · 2006 March 22nd, 08:05 PM

That makes sense. I wasn't trying to disagree with you, Tatonnement, as much as to clarify notacolour's comments that yes, sometimes depts have to use arbitrary criteria, especially for the last few slots. Overall though, I would still consider the admissions process a merit-based system as opposed to a lottery, as others have sometimes suggested.

Anyways, thanks for your good advice and thoughts on UMD. Here's another question: How would you view additional math classes (say, grad real analysis and measure/integ theory as in my case) taken by someone who has been out of college for a few years. To what extent can such classes signal a serious interest in grad econ, an ability to do rigorous math (assuming good grades in these courses), an improvement over less stellar grades rigorous post-Calc courses from a competitive college, and/or an improvement over little/no post-Calculus/linear algebra math courses in college?

This is something I've wondered and often been asked about, so I'm really curious how you find it's viewed "from the other side."

2006 March 22nd, 06:00 PM	#14 (permalink)
Tatonnement Groping toward equilibria Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 152	Other notes... I don't think the randomness discussion is going anywhere. The point was just that people get overlooked. When I'd applied to grad school I was turned down by the place where I now teach. I remember taking the rejections personally, which of course was silly. But now looking at it from the other side I probably would have turned myself down too. I had a fine but undistinguished record, and we get many, many applicants who fall in that bin. It's now getting to be so that we now expect students to take math every year in school, and many of them to take graduate level math. Students who complete requirements of econ majors at good schools with almost all A's often end up well down on the list.

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2006 March 22nd, 04:52 PM	#11 (permalink)
madabouteco Eager! Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 51	admission process is really randon..i got a reject from a real low ranked place and an acceptance from a top 25 US school!!now what would you call that!!

2006 March 22nd, 05:03 PM	#12 (permalink)
EPL-Sci I JUST got here. Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7	@madabouteco: No offense, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they just randomly pick people. It could just mean that they use different criteria! By the way, it seems pretty interesting to me how some of the future econ grad students in this thread don't seem to care very much about accuracy when talking about probability ;-)

2006 March 22nd, 05:11 PM	#13 (permalink)
madabouteco Eager! Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 51	@EPL-Sci that might be true in some cases like mine. anyways , atleast we can say that randomness lies in the criterion chosen for selection.

2006 March 22nd, 06:05 PM	#15 (permalink)
vagabond_shoes Eager! Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 93	Tatonnement you rule, thanks for your comments!

2006 March 22nd, 06:06 PM	#16 (permalink)
Larami Within my grasp! Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 132	Maybe pseudo-random. Their "search algorithm" probably hits points the dept feels important, but may skip over some things we feel are important.

2006 March 22nd, 07:19 PM	#17 (permalink)
JKRIS Within my grasp! Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 124	During the application process, I learnt that departments rank their applicants based on several criteria like grades, test scores, fit in the program and so on. Also different programs give wieght criteria differently. This is remarakably similar to the process in ranking universities. Rankings at econphd.net places Texas A&M at 44 and the study by Kalaitzidakis et al places the same school at 76. NC State is top 50 in USNEWS but around 90 according to econphd.net. So the process is not random - rather it is not consistent from program to program.

2006 March 22nd, 07:42 PM	#18 (permalink)
Tatonnement Groping toward equilibria Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 152	One other note while I'm whiling away my day... In my experience the statement of purpose is worth very very little. Unless there's a gap in the record which needs to be explained (which isn't very common), they convey close to zero information. Finally, I think the random/non-random discussion is a distinction without a difference. It's not just that different departments value components differently, but different committee memebers do to. It's like Harsanyi purification: conditioning on unobserved preferences, it's not random but to an outside observer it looks like the outcome of random draw (i.e. a mixed strategy).

2006 March 22nd, 07:57 PM	#19 (permalink)
vagabond_shoes Eager! Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 93	Tatonnement, since you know from the other side and you say the statement of purpose doesn't matter, how much does QGRE matter? Is it just a quick way cut off, i.e. only those above Q750 are reviewed or is it also a main decision variable?

2006 March 22nd, 08:05 PM	#20 (permalink)
associate Within my grasp! Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 128	That makes sense. I wasn't trying to disagree with you, Tatonnement, as much as to clarify notacolour's comments that yes, sometimes depts have to use arbitrary criteria, especially for the last few slots. Overall though, I would still consider the admissions process a merit-based system as opposed to a lottery, as others have sometimes suggested. Anyways, thanks for your good advice and thoughts on UMD. Here's another question: How would you view additional math classes (say, grad real analysis and measure/integ theory as in my case) taken by someone who has been out of college for a few years. To what extent can such classes signal a serious interest in grad econ, an ability to do rigorous math (assuming good grades in these courses), an improvement over less stellar grades rigorous post-Calc courses from a competitive college, and/or an improvement over little/no post-Calculus/linear algebra math courses in college? This is something I've wondered and often been asked about, so I'm really curious how you find it's viewed "from the other side."

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