ramlau Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 I just don't know much about the school, and they haven't updated the content of the website for a while. Any information and comments about the school are appreciated! Thanks, Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planetes Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Umich is really trying to make sure they don't get graduate students this year. At least that's how it appears to me. The admin is trying hard so that you don't go. Funding isn't even guaranteed after the first year in good standing. That's insane. As for the profs - I think they have some great talent. Many are leaving - e.g. Lones Smith is going to Yale. I don't know if Borges (sp?) is going to stay. The theory gruop doesn't seem very stable (4 people). It still seems strong in emperical econ - and labor. Profs are very friendly also - you might want to email them. The facilities are shitty. I mean even my UG has better facilities - but then again my UG is private and is tied to a B-school. Financial situation there doesn't look so good. imo good profs in certain fields, bad facilities and finances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramlau Posted March 27, 2006 Author Share Posted March 27, 2006 Umich is really trying to make sure they don't get graduate students this year. At least that's how it appears to me. The admin is trying hard so that you don't go. Funding isn't even guaranteed after the first year in good standing. That's insane. I wrote to them to ask about the funding situation. The answer is rather clear: "... As long as you are in good standing as a continuing student beginning your second year in our program, we do promise to provide support as a GSI for up to ten terms." So the funding issue doesn't bother me much. I'm more concerned about their attrition rate. All I know is that they graduate 10 to 12 students a year, but obviously they have bigger entering classes too because of the larger faculty size? Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planetes Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Did you get funding first year? I wouldn't worry if you get a fellowship. Attrition is at least 50% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramlau Posted March 27, 2006 Author Share Posted March 27, 2006 Did you get funding first year? I wouldn't worry if you get a fellowship. Attrition is at least 50% No funding first year. (Are they even giving out fellowships this year at all?) But I can pay for it. Having read their Survival Guide for New Grad Students, I see that you can take the micro and macro prelims 4 times. (How liberal they are!) The 50% figure is quite scary, are you sure about that? To my knowledge, it hasn't been the most notorious program in the attrition category. Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planetes Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 I'm pretty sure it's around 50% from when I called the director. People don't fail on quals - it's mostly people who drop out in later years I guess. well you have to pass the micro and macro on the second try - like everywhere else (if you fail the first) .. but i hear 80%+ pass on the first try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramlau Posted March 27, 2006 Author Share Posted March 27, 2006 I'm pretty sure it's around 50% from when I called the director. People don't fail on quals - it's mostly people who drop out in later years I guess. This "ATTRITION IN ECONOMICS PH.D. PROGRAMS" paper just confuses me even more. I wish I had more time to figure out where to go. (And I thought waiting for the decisions of the adcoms was bad.) Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brerfox Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Planetes, are you absolutely sure about Lones Smith going to Yale? How did you find out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planetes Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 i talked to the grad students there when i visited 2 weeks ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brerfox Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Strange. On my visit I heard that he bought a house recently, so people were predicting he'd stay. Think the grad students were right? He's not a small factor for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planetes Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 i'v heard ... either he likes you .. or he doesn't ... so you're taking a risk going for one prof .. besides the many obvious risks of going to a school cause of one prof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snappythecrab Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Strange. On my visit I heard that he bought a house recently, so people were predicting he'd stay. Think the grad students were right? He's not a small factor for me. I would email him or call him then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asquare Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Lones is on sabbatical this year. Tillman Borgers taught the game theory portion of the first year sequence instead. Funding is tight for the incoming class, but my impression is that this will affect your first year only. I would guess that more than half of the current first year class have fellowships for the first year and GSI (what the rest of the world calls TA) positions thereafter. I'm not sure where the 50% attrition figure comes from -- it seems unrealistically high. Planetes, did you get that from Prof. Tesar or from your own calculations? The small number of students graduating each year is more likely related to long completion times creating a bottleneck. More are coming in than going out, but those who haven't graduated are often either still in Ann Arbor, or working on their disserations elsewhere. The department is working hard to make it easier for students to finish in five years. Also, Planetes' information about the prelims is wrong -- under the current system, students have three tries at each of the micro and macro prelims, and if they pass one or the other, they are granted a fourth try at the exam they still need to pass. And there has been one exam in recent memory with an 80% pass rate, but that's unfortunately higher than the norm. The very best way to get a sense of the department is to visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planetes Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 I thought the prelim rules changed this year. I got the 50% from Tesar. Most of this info is from my dept visit 2 weeks ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asquare Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 I thought the prelim rules changed this year. I got the 50% from Tesar. Most of this info is from my dept visit 2 weeks ago. There has been a proposed change to the prelim rules, but you're misinterpreting the impact. If the change goes through, then students will indeed have two, rather than three or four, tries at each prelim. However, pass rates are expected to go up. The new system is NOT intended to fail more students out, only to make it more likely for students to finish in five years rather than more than five. If Linda told you 50%, then I won't dispute it. But that's certainly not what it seems like on the ground. Incidentally, Planetes, do you play baseball? (If not, just ignore the question...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planetes Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 My visit didn't leave me with a good impression of Michigan. I most likely will attend Wisconsin instead. Michigan doesn't seem to fail people on the prelims. I never claimed they did. It appears people drop out voluntarily. The placement record for Michigan is usually not in academia - compared to similiarly ranked schools. The main reason I decided against Michigan is: 1) placement in academia isn't as good as other schools. 2) weakness in theory; leaving profs in theory; 3) the dept seems to be bankrupt or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asquare Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 My visit didn't leave me with a good impression of Michigan. I most likely will attend Wisconsin instead. Michigan doesn't seem to fail people on the prelims. I never claimed they did. It appears people drop out voluntarily. The placement record for Michigan is usually not in academia - compared to similiarly ranked schools. The main reason I decided against Michigan is: 1) placement in academia isn't as good as other schools. 2) weakness in theory; leaving profs in theory; 3) the dept seems to be bankrupt or something. And that's why it's worth visiting and drawing your own conclusions from the information available -- after doing the same thing last year, I decided that Michigan was a better fit for me than Wisconsin and other schools. Good luck wherever you wind up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planetes Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 lol. this is funny. i guess the wis vs. michigan is a popular debate. one of the new assist. profs at umich had the same decision to make ... he got his phd from wisc tho. imo most state schools are bankrupt ... or lacking funding .. or osmething ... but 20-25% funding of the incoming class is NOT a good signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramlau Posted March 28, 2006 Author Share Posted March 28, 2006 imo most state schools are bankrupt ... or lacking funding .. or osmething ... but 20-25% funding of the incoming class is NOT a good signal. They confirmed with me that they don't fail that many students in the first couple of years. Only 10-15% don't make it thru the second year. I'm considering deferring their offer, since that option is available. Ram And that's why it's worth visiting and drawing your own conclusions from the information available -- after doing the same thing last year, I decided that Michigan was a better fit for me than Wisconsin and other schools. Good luck wherever you wind up. How much time does it take each week to be a responsible GSI? I hope you don't mind sharing a bit about your experience... Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asquare Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 However, I'd guess that well over half of my class have funding for the first year, so in part, they're having to make up for that by making fewer offers to the incoming class. Sucks, but they can't guess exactly how many offers will be accepted. Ram, my funding included a fellowship for the first year, so I'm not teaching right now. I'd guess that people spend about 20 hours a week on their GSI positions. You have to attend lectures and staff meetings, run two sections a week, hold office hours, and run review sessions (before exams). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramlau Posted March 28, 2006 Author Share Posted March 28, 2006 Ram, my funding included a fellowship for the first year, so I'm not teaching right now. I'd guess that people spend about 20 hours a week on their GSI positions. You have to attend lectures and staff meetings, run two sections a week, hold office hours, and run review sessions (before exams). Lucky you! 20 hours sounds about right. That's what I've been doing here at Tech. It's a hard knock life. You must be *really* looking forward to being a TA for hired next year. ;) I mean, how the hell do the GSIs manage to make it thru? They are way overworked. Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planetes Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 I believe around 60% obtained funding in previous years (not this incoming class). The admin claims "state budget" cuts are the problem with this year's crappy funding stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asquare Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Ram, no one in my class has a first year GSI appointment. Everyone who has funding has a fellowship for first year, so I don't really know what life is like if you are a GSI your first year. I admit, it would be a lot to handle, but people have done it in the past, so at least we know it's possible! I think balancing that, like many other things in grad school, comes down to organization and effective study habits. Are you in a master's program now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramlau Posted March 28, 2006 Author Share Posted March 28, 2006 Are you in a master's program now? No... I'm still doing my last 21-hour UG semester so that I can finish my 2 majors and 2 minors by August so that I can fully enjoy my college retirement, commonly known as the Math Camp, somewhere in the country. Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planetes Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 they don't do GSI 1st year at umich anymore - cause people were sucking with the added workload Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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