FULBRIGHT - keep it or decline?

[Ivo]

Hello fellow TMians,

it's been a while since I asked your for an advice.
Okay, here's the little dilemma I have: as many of you know i was lucky to qualify for a Fulbright grant. Fulbright would support me with up to 15 000USD for living expenses and 17 000USD for tuition costs, provided that it's not covered by the university itself. However, since UC Berkeley is going to cover most of my expenditures for the first year (ie. all the tuition costs) and will grant me a 17 000USD fellowship, I cannot utilize Fulbright's offer anymore. What Fulbright is going to provide me with is extra 4600USD for living and they'll pay air fare + issurance too (all this is only for the first year). Altogether they won't spend more than 6000USD on me. Nothing's for free though: I have to sign a contract with them that after completing my studies in the U.S. I must return home for at least 2 years.

What makes me want keep this grant:
1)the 6000USD I'll get from them

2)The little prestige that goes along with receiving the Fulbright grant + becoming a Fulbright alumni (they will even invite us to some orientation session with other Fulbrightist from around the world and pay for that).


3)The help I'll get from them when applying for a visa

4)The long faces i'd get from the Fulbright people at home if I declined their offer now

What makes me not want to keep it:

1) The fact that I will not be able to work for at least 2 years in the US. after PhD completition - ie. no post-doctoral fellowship etc.

Okay, I don't really intent to stay in the US in the long run, but who knows what will happen after I graduate. Do you think that leaving the U.S. for 2 years after completition will close the doors to a position in the U.S. academia? I mean it's likely that most of the contacts will get lost meanwhile, right?

What would you do?

every advice appreciated.

ivo

[EconChump]

wow that's a tough one.

while a prestigious scholarship will make your cv shine for a long time, so too will a phd from berkeley. i would not want to restrict my options in such a way for the sake of 6k and for one dinner a year.

you may not want to be in the states long term, but who knows what amazing opportunities may arise soon after you complete your phd. personally, i wouldnt want to risk missing out...

i say no.

[europeean]

Hi Ivo,

I do not think that you will loose your contacts in two years. Yet it would indeed severely limit your job options as a huge part of academia is going on in the US - just think you would be offered a post-doc position in the Top10 and you could not take it.

Of course for political science you might go to LSE or sth. - I am not an expert in this. Yet to loose all the US application opportunities would not be really nice. Yes Fulbright is great and it would be good to be in their Alumni, too. But if you write in your CV that you had a Fulbright offer you will keep at least some of their prestige...

My two cents would be to decline Fulbright if you do not need the money urgently - even though this is really a hard thing to do. Yet to close off the biggest labor market (especially for political scientists) for two years is a hard thing, too. Especially as Berkeley will give you most of its support for your first placement...

[OneMoreEcon]

Decline the award. Do you really want to sell two years of your life for $6000? No way, especially when you don't know what opportunities are going to arise from the Berkeley PhD (you're poli sci at Berkeley, right?).

If you really want to be a Fulbright alumni, you can always apply in a few years for one of the scholar (i.e. post-PhD) awards... I'm assuming they have those outside of the US.

Bottom line is that two years of your life is worth more than six grand, especially post-PhD from Berkeley. And to be honest, I doubt that a Fulbright is that amazing to have on the CV; it's not a bad thing to have, but I certainly don't think it's worth the cost.

Edit: europeean is absolutely correct about the CV. In your CV, under awards and honors, you list:

Fulbright (details), (declined for administrative reasons)

I've seen similar things in other people's CV's. Typically, it's because accepting an award limits your options, so you decline... but everyone knows you were still selected for the honor. (Like if you win NSF and Javits, you have to decline one.)

[The Waiting Is Killing Me]

Even though you have to sign that contract, they may not hold you to it.

I have a friend that recieved a Commonwealth scholarship to study in the UK and was sppsed to return home afterwards - but was instead allowed to go study in the US. It may be different however when it comes to staying in the country you agreed to leave.

[Ivo]

Originally Posted by EconChump

wow that's a tough one.

yeah, EconChump, that's very true. Thank you for you opinion.

while a prestigious scholarship will make your cv shine for a long time, so too will a phd from berkeley. i would not want to restrict my options in such a way for the sake of 6k and for one dinner a year.

you may not want to be in the states long term, but who knows what amazing opportunities may arise soon after you complete your phd. personally, i wouldnt want to risk missing out...

i say no.

I almost feel that you're right. I mean sometimes giving up short-term gains could prove very important towards reaching even higher goals. Oh, i don't really know what to do.
it's just that I was thinking of 2-4 options of what I could do after my PhD:
1) get a tenure somewhere in East Asia (my area of interest) or Europe

2) try to get a tenure in the United States and later on move to Europe (you need to know that I am a European and that's where I see my future in the long-term, but the U.S. experience would be valued highly

3) Work for an Int'l organization - that's a very attractive option to me, but most of the agencies are located in the U.S. I guess

Maybe for clarification: the condition of returing home for 2 years residency isn't that strict. One might spend it simply outside of the United States where Iwill definitely not be able to get a working permit for the 2 years after graduation.

Originally Posted by europeean

Hi Ivo,

I do not think that you will loose your contacts in two years. Yet it would indeed severely limit your job options as a huge part of academia is going on in the US - just think you would be offered a post-doc position in the Top10 and you could not take it.

yeah that's exactly what I was thinking. that would hurt a lot. Because having a working experience at one of these schools basically opens up the whole job market outside of the US. I mean it's always easier to get a job at a less-reputed university if one has already taught at top-10 one. right?

My two cents would be to decline Fulbright if you do not need the money urgently - even though this is really a hard thing to do. Yet to close off the biggest labor market (especially for political scientists) for two years is a hard thing, too. Especially as Berkeley will give you most of its support for your first placement...

that's an interesting thing to know. Would you guys know how this support for first placement really works? Is the help significant so that one needs to consider it? Or do schools only pretend to be helping you getting a good job after graduation?

thank you European for your opinion.

Originally Posted by OneMoreEcon

Decline the award. Do you really want to sell two years of your life for $6000? No way, especially when you don't know what opportunities are going to arise from the Berkeley PhD (you're poli sci at Berkeley, right?).

yes, that's true I am PolSci.
and this is exactly my worry: if I knew what was going to happen after my Phd? I mean I am going to spend at least 6 years in the States (that's how long it takes for PolSci majors). Then, I'd be forced to leave the country.

If you really want to be a Fulbright alumni, you can always apply in a few years for one of the scholar (i.e. post-PhD) awards... I'm assuming they have those outside of the US.

no that I really want. Actually I can live without it. The problem is also that if i decline now, the people at the Fulb. Commission might try to execute me. So i guess i would be never allowed to apply for that it in the future.

On the other hand, when I asked them to use more of the allocated funds they had set aside for my application, they turned me down ( I asked them to cover at least the 2nd year of non-resident tuition at UCB as this is not at this stage guaranteed by the school). In other words, they are very happy that they don't have to invest all the 32 000USD in me, but rather 6000USD.

Bottom line is that two years of your life is worth more than six grand, especially post-PhD from Berkeley. And to be honest, I doubt that a Fulbright is that amazing to have on the CV; it's not a bad thing to have, but I certainly don't think it's worth the cost.

that makes a lot of sense. thank you OneMoreEcon.

[Marco30]

Hi, I am a Fulbirghter like you and I have met a lot of fulbrighters who are in the same situation like you. Now if UC Berkeley is giving you all the money you need then you should not accept Fulbright's offer. However, I have known some fulbrighters that have arrange to remain in the US after they finished so you do not take the contract that serious. Specially if you are going to need some extra money.

[Ivo]

Originally Posted by Marco30

Hi, I am a Fulbirghter like you and I have met a lot of fulbrighters who are in the same situation like you. Now if UC Berkeley is giving you all the money you need then you should not accept Fulbright's offer. However, I have known some fulbrighters that have arrange to remain in the US after they finished so you do not take the contract that serious. Specially if you are going to need some extra money.

Marco I have just sent you a Personal Message (we call it PM here). Pls. check your Tm email box. I'd love to know more about this. How could they have stayed in the U.S.? Did your friends get the visa despite their obligation towards Fulbright?
pls. let me know.

[cridamour]

I'm also really interested in how to get around the Fulbright obligations after graduation. I am not sure I will get a Fulbright yet, as the applications are only due at the end of April and it's all just getting started here, but as I get full funding from Brown, I would just go for the Fulbright to be able to put it on my CV and to get my plane ticket paid, if they're willing to pay more, fine, if not, no drama.
Just to have things clear, the contract only tells you to get out of the US, it doesn't oblige you to go back to your home country?

[Ivo]

Originally Posted by cridamour

I would just go for the Fulbright to be able to put it on my CV and to get my plane ticket paid, if they're willing to pay more, fine, if not, no drama.
Just to have things clear, the contract only tells you to get out of the US, it doesn't oblige you to go back to your home country?

yeah I'd basically love to get the same thing.
as to the contract I know they can't really enforce that you return back to your country. Still, should you get a post-doctoral fellowship or a first tenure position in the U.S. you'd be litterally regretting having received a Fulbright beforehand. That's why I worry about it so much.

I actually wonder whether the U.S. government is somehow interconnected with IIE (IIE in NY is the Fulbright provider). I was told the following: since Fulbright is a government scheme, you will not be able to get a visa after the completion of your studies. I wonder how can the immigration authorities know about my status of being a former Fulbright scholar?

Cridamour, I haven't seen you on the forum for a while. How have you been? Everything's ready for Brown?