Advice for reapplying next year

[kcure]

Hey guys,

Looks like I'm going to be the odd man out this year, as I did not receive a funded offer (and turned down the unfunded ones). I am, however, planning to reapply next year. I applied to: BU, MIT, Yale, Penn, UMD, Princeton, Duke, Nwestern, Cal, Stanford. MIT and Penn both waitlisted me, among a few others, but I was out in the last cuts.

My stats are:
800Q/690V/6.0A
3.80 from Top 25 Econ school (known for grade deflation, so this would be ~ top 2%)
Combined BA/MA Econ (4.0 undergrad econ, I'd imagine ~ 3.7 MA)
Multivar Calc (A), Linear Alg (B), MA Math for Economists (A-), Statistics (A), MA Statistics (B+), MA Econometrics (using Greene) (current); also audited Math MA Optimization for Operations Research
Research Intern Department of Commerce FCS Spring 2005

I'm working until September as an Econometrician for the CIA, then planning to take a loan and travel until next summer.

My research interests are a bit strange: I'm primarily interested in knowledge goods/IP, and to a lesser extent economic system transitions on a micro level (such as a statist -> capitalist switch). Particularly for the IP, I've heard from a couple schools that they felt there was no one of their staff who researched in those areas. I was told that I might be a better fit at a business econ program, especially as I'm not too interested in Macro. Can anyone here recommend some programs that might be more suitable, or comment on the application process for business econ (to the extent that it differs from straight econ)? Also, does anyone have a list of the top schools in that field? Lastly, as I'm not willing to take an unfunded offer, is anyone familiar with the funding situation at these programs?

Thanks for the help.

[asquare]

kcure, I'm sorry you won't be starting in the fall. You asked for suggestions for next year, so I'll start there.

First and most obviously, apply to more schools. Apply to at least three or four schools that are outside of the top 10-15, but are strong in the fields you are interested in. The fact that you were waitlisted at MIT is a strong sign that you are a competitive candidate, but admissions are very hard to predict. Give yourself a wide safety net, since it's clear that you are committed to pursuing the PhD.

Second, be sure to apply for outside funding. As you may know, MIT's waiting list is closely linked to NSF awards -- students who are waitlisted and then get NSFs typically get in from the waitlist. This may also be true at other schools. (Note: I'm not sure if you can apply for an NSF if you do a business PhD or not -- check out the guidelines. You may be able to tweak your research description enough to fit their requirements.)

Third, if possible, get your name on a paper. The time frame and your travel plans may preclude this, but if you can coauthor anything that you can list as "under submission," well, it can't hurt.

If you had more time or different plans, I'd suggest enrolling as a non-degree student and taking the first semester of graduate micro. It's a high-risk, high-reward strategy, but doing well in such a class would be a big plus as it's the clearest signal you can send that you'll do well in the first year classes. But it sounds like you have the math background and that it doesn't work into your schedule, so I wouldn't change your plans to accomodate taking such a class.

As for business PhD programs, the process is similar to all PhD applications (and in the first year, you will typically take all of the same classes as econ PhD students.) The program at the Graduate School of Business at Stanford is one of the best in the country. MIT (Sloan) also has an excellent program. From what I know about the program here at Michigan, it is strong and the students are generally very positive about their business school faculty and the opportunities the program provides them. My understanding is that funding for top-tier business PhD programs is as good or better than funding in econ programs.

Other advice -- keep in touch with your professors. Ask them if they are willing to write recommendations again, and if they feel that they can write strong recommendations. Make sure they know how committed you are to pursuing your PhD. Ask their advice about where to apply, and ask them if they can recommend specific faculty members as potential advisors.

Finally, you have my respect for making the best of a difficult situation, and for your determination to pursue this goal. Good luck -- and good travels!

[kcure]

Thanks for the help, asquare. I'm finishing up a large paper right now (our final MA paper, which uses a very large NCAA basketball database we've constructed to predict first round upsets in March Madness - not strinctly economics, but it uses probit, a stepwise model to choose the regressors which I've coded, a bunch of good asymptotic tricks/delta method, etc.), so perhaps that will be solid enough to submit to a small journal.

I definitely plan on resubmitting NSF next year. I am certainly still in contact with my LOR authors, and they've all encouraged me to throw my hat into the ring again next year.

Thanks again - I'll look into the programs you mentioned. I'm meeting with an IP researcher over at NBER tomorrow, so I'm hoping he can recommend some suitable programs.

[asquare]

kcure, that sure is economics! And it sounds like a good paper, too. Submit it to a lower tier journal or even to a student journal (there are many journals that are peer reviewed by their student editorial boards and exist to publish student papers -- obviously less prestegious than the professional journals, but not nothing).

Something else to consider, if you want to travel and boost your application at the same time. If you have any interest in developing economies, consider applying to be an RA for an economist running projects in South America or Africa. I'm guessing you are in Boston; MIT's Poverty Action Lab was hiring for RAs recently. It's great experience and a great way to travel, if it appeals to you.

[JKRIS]

Hey guys,

Looks like I'm going to be the odd man out this year, as I did not receive a funded offer (and turned down the unfunded ones). I am, however, planning to reapply next year. I applied to: BU, MIT, Yale, Penn, UMD, Princeton, Duke, Nwestern, Cal, Stanford. MIT and Penn both waitlisted me, among a few others, but I was out in the last cuts.

My research interests are a bit strange: I'm primarily interested in knowledge goods/IP, and to a lesser extent economic system transitions on a micro level (such as a statist -> capitalist switch). Particularly for the IP, I've heard from a couple schools that they felt there was no one of their staff who researched in those areas. I was told that I might be a better fit at a business econ program, especially as I'm not too interested in Macro. Can anyone here recommend some programs that might be more suitable, or comment on the application process for business econ (to the extent that it differs from straight econ)? Also, does anyone have a list of the top schools in that field? Lastly, as I'm not willing to take an unfunded offer, is anyone familiar with the funding situation at these programs?

Thanks for the help.

Some suggestions, kcure. Some names that you may not have thought about

Michele Boldrin at Minnesota
David Levine at UCLA
William Lesser, Cornell University

My search uncovered a conference in UIUC on intellectual property. It seems like both UIUC and Berkeley engages in a considerable amount of research in this area. It also seems to occur primarily in schools that are strong in Ag/Resource.

So you have UCLA, Minnesota, Berkeley, Cornell and UIUC (not necessarily in that order). All of these are of good repute and you may want to consider them for next fall. You have a strong profile and I wish you the best.

[reactor]

David Levine at UCLA

I agree, in general, but I wouldn't go to UCLA just because of David Levine since I was told (by a professor of mine and friend/colleague of his) that "he is very busy" and that "he'll most probably be "closed" on dissertation supervising etc".

[OneMoreEcon]

Regarding funding at business econ programs, they have a reputation for taking very few students and funding them much better than pure econ programs. Not sure if this is true, but it's the reputation.

I'll make the suggestion that you should find programs that seem like a good fit and where you have some potential advisors in mind, and then "tailor" your research interests to suit the school a bit better. As long as the school seems like a good fit, why let your primary interests cloud the research statement that could be filled with more "acceptable" ideas.

[southern man]

Teece is at Berkeley. I'm not sure how often he is there. Have you read his book "Managing Intellectual Capital"?

PM me if you like - I have a very practical interest in the economics of intellectual property - specifically the link between development and IP, and "traditional knowledge". If you're at all interested in these areas, I'd be keen to know what you've read and enjoyed.

[madeco]

Hey guys,

Looks like I'm going to be the odd man out this year, as I did not receive a funded offer (and turned down the unfunded ones). I am, however, planning to reapply next year. I applied to: BU, MIT, Yale, Penn, UMD, Princeton, Duke, Nwestern, Cal, Stanford. MIT and Penn both waitlisted me, among a few others, but I was out in the last cuts.

Hi, I was in a similar situation. I received 2 offers, but they didn't include full financial assistance. Since I am an international student, a fellowship is something very important not only to live decenttly, but also to get a visa. So I considered the option of trying it again next year.

However, after some advice from my professors and some friends, I decided to accept an offer from Chicago with tuition scholarship and to try to borrow the money I need to live. I don't know if I will make it.
I have to say that I still dont feel fully confortable with this decision. I feel I am risking a lot.

Anyway, this is to tell you that you are not the odd man out. I believe many are in the same situation (I was going to be one of the many). Good luck for the next year. You have a great profile.

[asquare]

However, after some advice from my professors and some friends, I decided to accept an offer from Chicago with tuition scholarship and to try to borrow the money I need to live. I don't know if I will make it.
I have to say that I still dont feel fully confortable with this decision. I feel I am risking a lot.

madeco, a tuition waver from Chicago is nothing to sniff at -- I know it's hard to come up with the money for living expenses, but I can see why people advised you to take the offer and use loans. Given the high variance in probability of admission, it's hard to be confident in a better offer than that next time around, and one extra year of higher earnings (because of getting the PhD early) ought to be enough to pay off the interest on the loans.

Also, I think that taking out a loan rather than looking for off-campus employment is a very good idea. First year is hard enough; balancing a job makes it that much harder. Working for your department is a different situation, as there's educational value and an understanding of the demands of your classes. Working outside of the department isn't something I'd advise, though -- I definitely think taking a loan is a better option.

Good luck. And whatever uncertainty you feel now, try to really embrace the first year. Be enthusiastic even if you have to talk yourself into it.