Masters in Economics at NYU for Econ Phd in UK... - poor grades

[EconEconEcon]

Hi

 

I am looking to get some advice because I feel like i need to make some very important life altering decisions soon.

 

My Background:

 

I did my Bachelors in Engineering from Cornell (courses included all the core engineering math requirements, Core Operations Research courses which have a lot of math) and did a minor in Economics (basic macro and micro with electives).

 

But I have an extremely poor undergraduate GPA, below 3.0. I was emotionally and financially very stressed…. But there really is nothing that I can say to explain my lack of responsibility in handling that stress. I messed up big time. After that I decided to do a Masters from Columbia in Health Policy.

 

In the course of my masters, I did an internship with a think tank which made me realize that I would like to switch my field to economics and would like to peruse Ph.D in Economics.

I have no full time work experience so far but I have some good internship experience in international organizations.

 

My GRE Score is 790 Q and 640 V.

 

 

 

Options:

 

I am currently considering four options. I would be extremely grateful for any advice you guys could give me……

• My first option is a Masters program in Economics that I have got into in N.Y.U.
  
• My second option is a job as a Program Coordinator in Columbia University’s grant funded project health Initiative. I am interested in this because I have no full time work experience so far, and this seems an ideal way to get some. Also while at Columbia I could take some economics courses for free, as long as I am an employee of Columbia University.
  
• My third option is a Masters in Economics Program at Boston University
  
• Finally, I have a full funding to Brandeis University in their Masters in International Economics and Finance program.

My concerns:

• Do I have any chance of getting in a PhD? Because there is no point in me doing another masters if my chances are nil as far as econ PhD programs go.
  
• After doing another master with the sole purpose of pulling my grades up and getting some grounding in Econ courses increase my chances of getting into a Phd?
  
• Which of these programs prepares me well for a PhD Econ?
  
• Will getting the above mentioned work experience count toward helping me in any way?

I want to join a Econ PhD program in the U.K.

 

I feel extremely confused and really do not know what it the best option. Since i feel like i have already lost years, i want to now chose very carefully.

 

PLEASE HELP!!

[Ricardinho]

Hi there

 

I don't think having the work experience you described would be a significant plus to your application, and doing an MA is certainly the best option as far as increasing your chances of admission are concerned.

 

Now it's commonly acknowledged that US MA Econ programmes are not as rigorous as European/Canadian ones. In terms of Econ PhD placement, the best MA programmes are probably LSE, UBC and UPF. The latter two also offer substantial aid to incoming students (it's important to apply early). Otherwise programmes at Toronto, Queen's, Oxbridge, Warwick, UCL are all solid, rigorous programmes.

 

Therefore my advice would be to work for another year, take some courses at Columbia (they won't help too much directly with your application, but they will definitely help you to get better grades in the MA), and reapply for European/Canadian MAs. As long as you apply to a good range of schools, I'm sure you'll get into some of them.

 

Good luck.

[TheBrothersKaramazov]

I would agree that you should more courses - if you've only completed a minor in economics, make sure you have advanced micro/macro/metrics for admission to Canadian MA programs. UBC asks only for intermediate - but with a less than stellar profile, it can only improve your chances if you perform well in them.

[pookchen]

Do the masters -- in the US, their purpose is for people who don't feel that their background is good enough for a PhD in econ (either because of poor grades or not the right courses...)

[Ricardinho]

I have to disagree there...... if I'm not mistaken, the MAs at NYU and BU teach advanced undergrad courses. The PRIMARY purpose of these programmes is not preparing students for a PhD in Economics (although some graduates from these programmes have gotten into PhDs in the past), but rather prepare them for a career in industry.

 

In order to get into PhD programmes in the UK, it is necessary to have the equivalent of a masters degree in Economics in the UK. Having just finished my undergrad in Economics in the UK not so long ago, I'm pretty sure that MAs in the UK are more rigorous than MAs in the US.

 

I'm not saying that going to NYU or BU for an MA will necessarily rule out a PhD in the UK (in fact it almost certainly won't), but I don't think it is the best preparation.

[pookchen]

Well, EconEconEcon didn't mention doing an MA in the UK as an option. In any case, even students accepted in the UK to do a PhD are often required to complete MA work (even if they already have an MA!), so perhaps a US MA would be the first, allowing EconEc... to get into a UK school on the PhD track. Moreover, NYU's terminal Master's, though designed for careers outside of academia, also claim to be good prep for people wanting to go into Econ. If EconEc.. does really well there and with his previous math background, he would (in my humble opinion) be well positioned for a PhD track at a place like LSE... (a good friend of mine has a similar background and got just that)

[Ricardinho]

Pookchen: You are right that UK schools may well ask you to complete some MA coursework even after you are admitted into their PhD programme, and the NYU programme has placed students in PhDs at UC Davis and BU, so there's no reason why going there would harm EconEconEcon's chances at all.

 

In fact, I would even agree with you that if he/she has the financial resources, by all means go for the MA at NYU first and apply to UK schools, they may well offer him/her a place on the masters initially, with an option to continue onto a PhD.

 

However, the only downside to that route is obviously the financial costs involved.

[dradem]

I am no expert about programs in UK. But I feel that staying in academics for 2 years will be helpful for the future. I agree that MA programs in US usually prepare for the sector, but if you work a lot and show the profs that you are heading for PhD, then you will surely be placed in a good PhD program afterwards. So, if the two chances are NYU and BU, then I would choose NYU (if financially OK) and do my best. You may do very well and have strong LORs from the top economists at NYU. Good luck :)

[PCG]

Econ3...

 

you should do some research on the board here... there definately has been at least one person who currently is in that NYU program. If I remember correctly, that person was fairly negative about the program. You should consider PM-ing that person...

[devecon]

I am just completing my NYU MA studies. I will be going to Berkeley to do a PhD in Ag Econ in the fall - so it is certainly possible to go on for a PhD after going to NYU.

 

Based on converstations with other people, here are where some NYU MA graduates have gotten into: UVA Econ, Georgetown Econ, USC Econ, Maryland Econ, Maryland Econ, U Penn, Kennedy school.

 

The NYU program is expensive (since you also need to factor in living costs in NYC) and the level of training you get can vary. For most people on this board, it's probalby not worth it, since the training is best classifed as advanced undergraduate work. However, for people who either have done poorly as an undergrad, have worked for several years, or need to improve their signaling, NYU might be a good fit.

 

What is absolutely critical if you decide to go to NYU is to choose your classes wisely. You can take 8 credits outside of econ. If you are applying to a PhD program, those 8 credits should all be done at Courant (the math department). Intro to Analysis is a good course. If you have extra money, take additional math classes. They will go on your record, but won't count for your MA degree. In fact, if you are determined to apply to a PhD program, you can take additional math courses and not worry about completing the MA requirements.

 

Also start building relationships with professors immeidately. Go to office hours and volunteer to do any type of work for a professor. Let them know you're good at getting data, running regressions, and finding information at the library. Volunteer to work for free. The MA program goes by quickly, and you will need to get to know 3 professors quickly in order to position yourself for the application process in the following year.

 

Start to think about research as soon as you get to NYU. In fact, write a draft of a research paper. Some professors will want to see what you can produce when they write you a recommnedation. It doesn't have to be great work, just something to show your interest in research.

 

I don't think work experience is relevant at all to most PhD programs. The programs are looking for: 1) ability to complete the first year 2) to produce productive research. A strong math background increaeses the chances of doing the former, and strong recommendations will signal the latter.

 

I can't comment about other MA programs because I have no knoweldge about them.

 

Good luck.

[EconEconEcon]

Thank you so much guys!! I cannot begin to explain what a help it has been... to be able to tell you guys everything and get help evaluating the situation objectively is so helpful.

 

I had actually applied to the LSE for a masters but couldn't make it. I know that Warwick is very hard to get into as well. Would you guys have any suggestions on where else i could apply, in the UK and might have a decent shot at getting into? I really want to do my PhD from Cambridge and any program that might give me a good shot at that would be very helpful. Provided their deadlines are still open!! Its all kinda late.

[senmaster]

I want to ask the obvious question: Have you applied to Cam MPhil Econ??

 

you may already know about the cambridge programme econeconecon but just in case :

 

You can apply directly to Cambridge MPhil Econ (option A- i think) ...once you complete this masters programme and do well you go on to do 3 more years for PhD..so youre done in 4 years..

 

Funding is hard to get in UK because many of the schemes that fund studies you have to apply seperately--as opposed to US PhD programme apps-- (and four copies of all documents have to submitted everywhere)..However its possible..there are many different schemes for eg Gates-Cambridge scholarships (and there are some only for US students) Lots of paperwork and you need 2-3 referees to apply to cambridge..

 

Because of this I think you should do some econ courses (MA/MSc/Mphil/ BA or otherwise-you have to decide) before you apply to cam..

WHY:

1. you need referees,

2. you need econ courses to signal to Cam that you can do econ..

3. You would need a better grade average (Cam Ox LSe etc ask for a 'first class honours' degree--try to find out what the american equivalent is)

 

On the Cambridge econ (mphil) website they claim that it is extremely difficult to get in..While it probably is I dont think it would be as difficult as LSE, Ox, UCL,...

[EconEconEcon]

Thanks senmaster.

No i didn't apply to the cam program. But i checked and the deadline has passed for this year. Because i got a reject from LSE this year... do you think that undermines my chances of getting into the same program if i apply again next year?

[senmaster]

if you mean reapplying for lse next year: i dont thinnk youd be able to get in if your profile remains the same..

 

if you mean applying to mphil at cam next year (that includes the option of advancing to phd): i dont know..i think it easier to get into cam than lse..but how easier i dont know..

 

i got into LSE and ox masters programs but didnt apply to cam..i think i would have got in there too...however my profile is different to yours..ive got full econ background with almost no math..youve got (it seems) lots of math but no econ..

 

overall if you want to end up at cambridge ultimately i think you should look at ways that gets you into cam mphil...

 

please do consult others (maybe even give cambridge people a call)..

 

here is my advice: if you are willing to spend money at NYU then complete high level econ courses and get really good marks...get good LORs..you already have good gre..and remember if you want to apply next year you need to send application in by jan 2007 (i think)..

 

and any help by others on TM could add to or correct the advice i have given..why i am cautious with this advice is that youll be dumping lot of money at NYU and you want to do this right...

 

good luck..

[Ricardinho]

Hi

 

I just finished my undergrad at Cambridge (in Economics) and will be going to UPF for an MSc in the autumn. As far as the MPhil is concerned, I would say that it's very difficult to get in. Whilst I'm not sure if it's harder than LSE or Oxford, it certainly is harder than UCL and Warwick (and I say this from personal experience, I was rejected by Cambridge and accepted by Warwick).

 

Assuming that you have the financial resources, I would say do the MA at NYU and reapply for the Cambridge MPhil afterwards. Another route into the Cambridge PhD is to do a masters at another uni in the UK. In the past, people have done masters at Essex, Warwick, York and got admitted into the PhD (assuming that you are ranked amongst the very best in the year).

 

However, having said all this, I would just like to say that if you have the chance to go for a PhD at somewhere like Maryland, I would lean towards that than Cambridge.

[PCG]

Why the intense focus on Cambridge? Are you not open to other, good programs?

[EconEconEcon]

I am open to other programs but Cambridge would still be one of my top choices. When I do get to the stage of applying for Econ PhD, I would apply to other programs too.. Hopefully I would end up somewhere good. So considering my options at this stage, and my long term goals... I will look if programs mentioned above are still accepting applications for this year. I am guessing not... in that case my only choice would be NYU.

Since i do have full funding in Brandeis Masters in International Econ and Finance.... would that in anyway work to my advantage?

[senmaster]

what are the courses like...do you have the option of doing courses that are more or less like courses in pure econ masters...what is the reputation of Brandeis (Im non-US, i dont know)...

 

Im guessing its not as well known as NYU..I think US TMians will have a better shot at this..

[EconEconEcon]

Courses at Brandeis Include:

· Global Economic Environment*

· Accounting and Financial Analysis*

· Financial Theory*

· Quantitative Techniques*

· Organizations and Management*, Managing International Business*

or an elective course

· International Corporate Finance*

· Operations Management*

· Global Marketing Strategy*

· Managing Across Cultures*, Competition and Strategy*, or an elective course

· Study abroad or 4-5 courses, electives or requirements

· Financial Modeling*

· Electives or remaining requirements

[PCG]

I don't know...those classes don't really seem to address the issues you are facing. I doubt these will be very helpful for your goal.

[Lseapplicant]

Hej,

 

I just finished the Mphil in econ at cambridge last year and therefore I maybe of assistance to you.

By an accident of history I also completed the first year of an american top - 20 Ph.D. program and therefore I can compare the two to settle the US vs. UK school debate once for all on this board.

 

As for getting into the Mphil it seemed to me that most people on the course are motivated and very bright. I am almost certain that the quality of students is higher than other schools in the top-40 range, since the cmabridge name attracts alot of bright people.

So I dont know whether it is easier or harder to go to Cambridge than the LSE, but the I think the application to enrollment ratio at cambridge is 650 to 50 while at LSE 1100 to 110 so it is roughly the same.

 

The cambrdige degree feeds right into the Ph.D. and if you really want a cambridge Ph.D., then this is the way to get in. It seems to me that you REALLY have to be the top-student out of many in other programs for the faculty to accept you, although if you come from LSE that seems to be an exception.

 

As for making the mark from Mphil to PhD, about 30 - 40% of the students get a 65 to go on for a PhD each year so it is about the same drop out rate as the qualifiers in the US.

 

 

As for comparison UK to US:

 

In the US the profs teach you hard core math so you can understand the problems the quantitative way. In the UK on the other hand it is more about problem solving. Moreover the training in the UK is much more applied as well and as much as most people on this board will haunt me for saying this, I do think that the UK is ahead of the US in applied econometrics. Just compare the different approaches to VAR's to see what I mean: In the US you can just run a VAR without checking for stationarity, etc. In th UK on the other hand you are expected to do a VECM, explicitly accounting for the dynamics of the underlying time-series in your model.

 

When it comes to MAcro on the other hand (my field), I do think that the US is ahead, but in micro some people in the UK are just as good as people at top-15 schools in the US. Cambridge had some recent micro & finance placements at Northwestern and U of Toronto.

 

I hope this helps but please let me know if you have any other questions.

 

cheers