Is a masters econ to fill math void

[Antichron]

Originally Posted by senmaster

thanks antichron..

did you mean 'pretty good grades in several ECON classes'?

and what are 'upper division' math classes.... me, I have hardly any math credits...I guess I'm pushing the bounds in terms of relying on PhD level courses...If I do masters Ill be completing 6 PhD level courses and a 10,000 word mini-thesis before applying to US PhD..is this good enough to apply to top 20?

Haha. Yeah. I meant econ classes. :-) Upon applying, he had completed (he was on the quarter system):
Lower division math (i.e. Freshman/Sophomore math)
1) Differentiation (Calculus I)
2) Integration (Calculus II)
3) Multivariable Differentiation (Calculus III)
4) Multivariable Integration (Calculus IV)
5) Matrix Algebra
6) Differential Equations

Upper division math (Junior/Senior math)
7) Probability Theory
8) Linear Algebra

Graduate ECON classes (PhD level)
9) Dynamics and Growth Theory
10) Business Cycles
11) Topics in Macroeconomics
12) Theory of the Firm/Consumer
13) Probability and Statistics for Econometrics

If you can manage a class on real analysis while you are doing your master's program, that would be a bonus. His approach was kinda risky, but he got some really good recommendation letters by the professors of his graduate level classes.

I doubt the thesis will have much bearing on your admissions. It is my impression that research done as an undergrad/master's student is not a good indicator of quality of research done later in one's career. (Unless you are Mihai Manea or someone like that: See http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~mmanea/Mihai%20Manea.pdf)

I hope this helps! Good luck with your applications.

[asquare]

I don't think a masters in econ makes up for an insufficient math background. It can help to "make up" for poor grades as an undergraduate, attending a less-than-stellar undergraduate university, having an undergraduate degree from a different country (or in a different language) than where you want to attend graduate school, not having taken many econ classes, and, possibly, not having good recommendations/connections.

I've said probably everything I have to say on the question of masters degrees on this thread, ("Get an MA" --> not one-size-fits-all advice) and other people added very useful comments. You might take a look.

But the bottom line is that math is one piece of the puzzle. Not having taken lots of math is a strike against your application, but is unlikely to absolutely black-ball you by itself. There is no perfect applicant. The admissions process is always about balancing qualifications in many areas, of which math is only one. Having very strong credentials in other areas (great grades, other rigerous classes, research experience, a publication, etc.) will get you considered for admission even without a lot of math. (I had not taken anything more difficult than multivariable calc when I applied, though I did take real analysis the semester before I began my PhD -- and I'm darn glad that I did!)

The level of math in masters programs is, with a couple of notable exceptions, including LSE, substantially below that required in PhD programs. First year econ PhD classes are proof-based classes. That's a mathematical technique you are unlikely to develop in a masters program in the US. You can learn it when you start your PhD, but it makes life harder. I don't think a masters in econ is the most efficient or effective way of remedying a lack of math, either for application or preparation purposes. The masters in econ has its place, but I don't think this is it.

[Gravity]

good advice asquare but contrary to what you said, I think a masters in econ can fill up some of the math void . it first depends on the school and the course work the follow. Some school make you follow the first year sequence of a phd program, with a choice of 2 or 3 electives, which I might add are phd classes you have to select from. so my point is this, if one can SUCESSFULLY get through those course, then he is adequately prepared in the math area.

[asquare]

Originally Posted by Gravity

good advice asquare but contrary to what you said, I think a masters in econ can fill up some of the math void . it first depends on the school and the course work the follow. Some school make you follow the first year sequence of a phd program, with a choice of 2 or 3 electives, which I might add are phd classes you have to select from. so my point is this, if one can SUCESSFULLY get through those course, then he is adequately prepared in the math area.

If the most significant weakness in the application is the math, I think there are still better, more direct ways to both learn the math needed to do well in the PhD and to convince the admissions committee you are prepared.

The type of masters you are describing would be quite difficult for someone with a significant math deficiency. If one isn't sufficiently prepared, he probably won't be successful in those classes. A masters program that puts students in the PhD classes, graded in comparison to the PhD students, seems to make sense for those applying to European PhDs (D-phils) where a masters is a prerequesite. But such a program may not be as good a choice for someone planning a PhD in the USA. Someone prepared to excell in a program like that could save time and money by going directly to a PhD, and someone who hasn't had enough math to keep up with first year coursework may do poorly in a program like that, hampering his chances of getting in to a good PhD program later.

Clearly, that type of masters will be very useful for some students, and has the advantage of being designed for students who want to go on to a PhD, rather than to work in industry.

[shootermcgavin7]

I have a little bit of an untraditional background, so maybe I can offer (a little bit) of hope to some people who don’t have grad level math and 4.0 GPAs from Ivys.


Let me offer this disclaimer: I have not started the PhD application process yet. Maybe my advice will be worthless when I do.
Enough preface.




I did not major in Economics. I did not major in Math. In fact, I took B-Stats and 0 other math courses as an undergrad.
I had placed into Calc3 on the placement tests we took coming in so the Stats was my only math credit.


I got a double major in Accounting/Finance & Computer Science. I worked as a programmer for two years which still in college, during the .com crash. I spent a few years with PricewaterhouseCoopers before deciding to go back to school.
I always enjoyed economics in UG, which is in no way related to grad-level Econ. I realized this, and it is actually the reason I wanted to go back to school. UG econ is actually quite boring without the quant chucked in.


I took Calc II, III, Diff EQ, and Matrix Algebra from University of Illinois/Urbana while working 90-100 hrs/week to remediate my lack of math. I’m rolling into a M.S. Program, and I’m taking nearly all PhD courses, as well as Analysis I & II (Rudin) as well as Real Analysis (along with Math Stats, and Prob/Stat theory II and Regression analysis).


I feel confident that with research experience, math, and working through the PhD level texts, I can at least get into a PhD program that I wouldn’t have gotten into with a quant level of Calc II in December when I would have applied.


There are a lot of people who don’t need a master’s. Hopefully those people are told to get a PhD by the rest of TM. However, a master’s has been a huge stepping-stone in giving me a chance toward a solid PhD program.


Just providing an alternate view from many posters. Enjoy.

[asquare]

shootermcgavin, I think taking all of that math will really be useful. Or, put differently, without that math, PhD courses would have been really difficult for you -- you would have had to focus on the math rather than the concepts the math supports. You wouldn't have gotten all of that by following a normal masters cirriculum, though. You had a good sense of what you needed to improve about your profile, and seem to have gone about doing just that. Good luck -- though it sounds as though you aren't going to need luck!

[senmaster]

I would like to thank everyone for the posts and points of view. While the responses have been somewhat mixed everyone has given really good reasoning for the views...This has helped me a lot..