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One on One · 08-14-2006, 02:34 AM

I was planning to wait until 2008 to apply and still probably will, but since my aims aren't quite as high as most people on these forums, I wanted to ask if you thought I could get into any decent phd programs after this year. I will have completed:

econ: micro/macro theory, some electives
math: calc 1-3, diff eq, elem. linear algebra, proofs, theoretical stats

I think GPA is 4.0 right now in math/econ courses and I know I can keep it > 3.8. Always do well on standard tests although haven't taken GRE yet, I'd imagine I'd get something like 780Q,620V.

What do you think? Thx.

BTW, I'd also think about some master's programs, but I do think I want to aim for phd.

TruDog · 08-14-2006, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by One on One

I was planning to wait until 2008 to apply and still probably will, but since my aims aren't quite as high as most people on these forums, I wanted to ask if you thought I could get into any decent phd programs after this year. I will have completed:

econ: micro/macro theory, some electives
math: calc 1-3, diff eq, elem. linear algebra, proofs, theoretical stats

I think GPA is 4.0 right now in math/econ courses and I know I can keep it > 3.8. Always do well on standard tests although haven't taken GRE yet, I'd imagine I'd get something like 780Q,620V.

What do you think? Thx.

BTW, I'd also think about some master's programs, but I do think I want to aim for phd.

Are you planning on taking a year off? Or are you a junior this fall? Anyway, you ought to be competitive at top-25 schools iff that GRE Q is 780 or higher. I'd work like mad to get an 800.

One on One · 08-14-2006, 11:49 PM

TruDog,

I am actually working on my 2nd undergrad degree which is kind of why I'd like to go to grad school after this year if possible. The problem is I will be missing an upper level linear algebra course and real analysis and maybe some other stuff too.

OneMoreEcon · 08-15-2006, 12:02 AM

One on One,

What have you completed and what will you complete by the end of the fall semester? Please include grades.

If you won't take Calc III until spring, then your prospects aren't great. Also, I don't think top 25 is going to happen this year. Too many applicants with more math.

I recommend sticking around to get more math, or apply to some good master's programs (Toronto, UBC, LSE, maybe some others) and do that instead. Then again, the math might still be somewhat deficient, especially for LSE.

OneMoreEcon · 08-15-2006, 12:02 AM

*duplicate post #1*

OneMoreEcon · 08-15-2006, 12:03 AM

*duplicate post #2... internet connection was acting up*

One on One · 08-15-2006, 12:18 AM

What is Calc 3 exactly? I didn't really specify....I'm taking Multivariable Calc in the fall and I'll take Advanced Calc in the Spring. Are there good schools that admit you conditionally and then you take the courses you are missing? My grades are all A's and courses are stated in the first post.

OneMoreEcon · 08-15-2006, 04:27 AM

Calc III is usually multivariable calc. Is advanced calc the same as analysis at your school? (It was at my school, but I've noticed some posters here have adv calc and real anlysis.)

My guess is that schools don't really give a provisional admit... usually, I think there are more than enough applicants that schools can choose who they want (and if you're in the provisional category for a school, they'll flip a coin... but I don't think there are provisional admits in the US; LSE, on the other hand, does seem to have provisional admits.) Also, I don't think schools give much credit for a course you haven't taken... I know math professors who say that analysis is the first real math course that helps you decide whether or not math is the right field for you, and I think econ professors have a similar mindset with regard to analysis. However, you can't predict success ahead of time. Some people hate proofs and abandon math; some people love proofs and develop a real passion for math that they didn't have while taking computationally-oriented math classes (i.e. plug-&-chug isn't real exciting and says little about your ability to do real math).

I was just trying to see what classes would be completed at the time of application, not what will be completed prior to beginning a grad program next fall. For the purposes of grad admissions for next year, taking multivariable calc in the fall is very different from taking it next summer.

Your LORs play a huge role in grad admissions, but I would guess that your profile at the moment (assuming similar progress in the fall) would probably be competitive at schools ranked #30 and below. At top 30 schools, I think there are a lot of applicants who will have a course in analysis or something else to distinguish them from the pile of applications (and the higher you go in the rankings, the more amazing the extra things will get... as I have before, I'll recommend that people go and find Antichron and kralcar's profiles on the thread for last year's econ PhD applicants).

If you stick around for some extra math courses or do a master's and apply for a PhD in '08, I think you'll have a good shot at a top 20.

shootermcgavin7 · 08-15-2006, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneMoreEcon

Calc III is usually multivariable calc. Is advanced calc the same as analysis at your school? (It was at my school, but I've noticed some posters here have adv calc and real anlysis.)

A note on this: at my school, Advanced Calc is an analysis class that uses Rudin - "Principles of Mathematical Analysis" as the text.

Real Analysis is a graduate class that uses Royden - "Real Analysis".

I will get to experience both over the next year so I'll let you know how it goes.

asquare · 08-15-2006, 03:26 PM

OneMoreEcon's advice is right on -- schools won't give you a provisional admit or place much weight on classes you are planning to take. However, you certainly have the basics required for admission to a school ranked 20-50. What will make the difference now is the details: the quality of your undergraduate institution, your research experience, the letters of recommendation, your GRE scores (in that anything below about a 780 works against you), and the record of previous students from your school who have gone on to econ PhDs at the places where you are applying. If you look very strong on all of those fronts, you should have a shot at some programs ranked higher than 20.

Also, I don't think real analysis is the only dividing line between those who get into a top 20 school and those who don't. I can think of many exceptions -- people who have not had analysis and attend top 20 and even top 10 schools, and people who have taken analysis and other math, but don't get into those schools. Real analysis is important, but it's only one part of the whole picture.

And by the way, kuddos on making the decision to focus on the PhD. The masters as an intermediate step is often overblown, especially as you state that your ambitions aren't necessarily a top 10 and that you've already done a second undergrad degree. It's an option to keep in mind, but I respect going after what you want and weighing for yourself whether the time and the risks of the masters are really worth it.

08-14-2006, 02:34 AM	#1 (permalink)
One on One Eager! Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 55	What kind of phd econ programs could I try to get in after this year? I was planning to wait until 2008 to apply and still probably will, but since my aims aren't quite as high as most people on these forums, I wanted to ask if you thought I could get into any decent phd programs after this year. I will have completed: econ: micro/macro theory, some electives math: calc 1-3, diff eq, elem. linear algebra, proofs, theoretical stats I think GPA is 4.0 right now in math/econ courses and I know I can keep it > 3.8. Always do well on standard tests although haven't taken GRE yet, I'd imagine I'd get something like 780Q,620V. What do you think? Thx. BTW, I'd also think about some master's programs, but I do think I want to aim for phd.

08-15-2006, 12:02 AM	#5 (permalink)
OneMoreEcon TestMagic Guru-in-Training Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 538	duplicate post #1 Last edited by OneMoreEcon : 08-15-2006 at 04:14 AM.

08-15-2006, 12:03 AM	#6 (permalink)
OneMoreEcon TestMagic Guru-in-Training Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 538	duplicate post #2... internet connection was acting up Last edited by OneMoreEcon : 08-15-2006 at 04:14 AM.

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08-14-2006, 11:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
One on One Eager! Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 55	TruDog, I am actually working on my 2nd undergrad degree which is kind of why I'd like to go to grad school after this year if possible. The problem is I will be missing an upper level linear algebra course and real analysis and maybe some other stuff too.

08-15-2006, 12:02 AM	#4 (permalink)
OneMoreEcon TestMagic Guru-in-Training Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 538	One on One, What have you completed and what will you complete by the end of the fall semester? Please include grades. If you won't take Calc III until spring, then your prospects aren't great. Also, I don't think top 25 is going to happen this year. Too many applicants with more math. I recommend sticking around to get more math, or apply to some good master's programs (Toronto, UBC, LSE, maybe some others) and do that instead. Then again, the math might still be somewhat deficient, especially for LSE.

08-15-2006, 12:18 AM	#7 (permalink)
One on One Eager! Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 55	What is Calc 3 exactly? I didn't really specify....I'm taking Multivariable Calc in the fall and I'll take Advanced Calc in the Spring. Are there good schools that admit you conditionally and then you take the courses you are missing? My grades are all A's and courses are stated in the first post.

08-15-2006, 04:27 AM	#8 (permalink)
OneMoreEcon TestMagic Guru-in-Training Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 538	Calc III is usually multivariable calc. Is advanced calc the same as analysis at your school? (It was at my school, but I've noticed some posters here have adv calc and real anlysis.) My guess is that schools don't really give a provisional admit... usually, I think there are more than enough applicants that schools can choose who they want (and if you're in the provisional category for a school, they'll flip a coin... but I don't think there are provisional admits in the US; LSE, on the other hand, does seem to have provisional admits.) Also, I don't think schools give much credit for a course you haven't taken... I know math professors who say that analysis is the first real math course that helps you decide whether or not math is the right field for you, and I think econ professors have a similar mindset with regard to analysis. However, you can't predict success ahead of time. Some people hate proofs and abandon math; some people love proofs and develop a real passion for math that they didn't have while taking computationally-oriented math classes (i.e. plug-&-chug isn't real exciting and says little about your ability to do real math). I was just trying to see what classes would be completed at the time of application, not what will be completed prior to beginning a grad program next fall. For the purposes of grad admissions for next year, taking multivariable calc in the fall is very different from taking it next summer. Your LORs play a huge role in grad admissions, but I would guess that your profile at the moment (assuming similar progress in the fall) would probably be competitive at schools ranked #30 and below. At top 30 schools, I think there are a lot of applicants who will have a course in analysis or something else to distinguish them from the pile of applications (and the higher you go in the rankings, the more amazing the extra things will get... as I have before, I'll recommend that people go and find Antichron and kralcar's profiles on the thread for last year's econ PhD applicants). If you stick around for some extra math courses or do a master's and apply for a PhD in '08, I think you'll have a good shot at a top 20.

08-15-2006, 03:26 PM	#10 (permalink)
asquare TestMagic Guru Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ann Arbor Posts: 1,381	OneMoreEcon's advice is right on -- schools won't give you a provisional admit or place much weight on classes you are planning to take. However, you certainly have the basics required for admission to a school ranked 20-50. What will make the difference now is the details: the quality of your undergraduate institution, your research experience, the letters of recommendation, your GRE scores (in that anything below about a 780 works against you), and the record of previous students from your school who have gone on to econ PhDs at the places where you are applying. If you look very strong on all of those fronts, you should have a shot at some programs ranked higher than 20. Also, I don't think real analysis is the only dividing line between those who get into a top 20 school and those who don't. I can think of many exceptions -- people who have not had analysis and attend top 20 and even top 10 schools, and people who have taken analysis and other math, but don't get into those schools. Real analysis is important, but it's only one part of the whole picture. And by the way, kuddos on making the decision to focus on the PhD. The masters as an intermediate step is often overblown, especially as you state that your ambitions aren't necessarily a top 10 and that you've already done a second undergrad degree. It's an option to keep in mind, but I respect going after what you want and weighing for yourself whether the time and the risks of the masters are really worth it.

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