About GPA

[amishera2007]

Hi,

Is that true that the last 2 years' gpas are taken more seriously than the previous 2 years' ?

[wahl]

Yes. This is especially true if you took all your gen ed. classes in the first two years - they care more about the courses you took in your major, which are usually courses you take from sophomore year onward. Some schools (like Berkeley I think) ask you to actually calculate your GPA from the past two years. If you really blew it freshman year, you might include an addendum where you discuss the reasons why: it would be appropriate to mention there what your GPA would be if you excluded your courses from freshman year, or the courses you took when you were in a different major, etc.

 

Furthermore, if you're in a master's program, your grades from the master's program matter more than from undergrad.

[Ancalagon The Black]

wahl:

 

I am doing a post graduate diploma concurrently with my bachelors. We have no general courses .... only ones related to the field of study. My PGD is in computer applications and my bachelors is in business (finance) because i am interested in MIS programs.

 

Would you think that they would see both scores as being equally important?

[wahl]

Not sure. I think the more difficult courses, which are presumably the ones for your PGD, would be considered more heavily even though you're taking them at the same time. Grad schools want to know how you will perform at the graduate level, and the best way to know that is by looking at grades in graduate-level courses. On the other hand, your PGD and bachelors are in different fields, so they'll be forced to consider both sets of scores.

[Ancalagon The Black]

wahl:

 

Thing is, in India, we have a lot of different schemes of marking. My undergraduate total score is given as a percentage but individual scores are in grades .... which appear low (B,C). No one gets A other than Lab courses because A is 80%+ in any course. My mean score is 70% and my mean class rank is 4/150. But, the individual grades appear less if you see them in accordance with the US system. :(

 

I have an ok gre (q770, v700, awa 6.0) so i don't see myself getting any special advantages there.

 

In my PGD, the marking system is different. There are no overall scores of GPA, only an overall grade. My overall grade is B but as usual, hardly anyone gets A (75 - 84%) or S (85% +)

 

Also, 99%+ people do PGD after undergraduate degree, but I had taken another diploma course to this PGD track which allows me to do both concurrently. I have the heaviest course load (11 courses per semester of 4 credits each course) :(

 

But, I am really confused because when adcoms will see B and C on my transcript, I will be thrown out ... no one will read my research ... :( ... atleast thats what talk on this forum seems to confirm.

[Ancalagon The Black]

My university is also highly ranked ... its 11th and of course, the first 7 are the IITs... but the IITs dont teach BBA...

 

In BBA program, we are ranked 2nd in the country.

 

India Today Ranks VIT UNIVERSITY as No.1 Private Engineering Institution in the Country

‘Outlook’ Ranking of Top Govt. Engineering Colleges-India « AdmissonSync

 

These are from Outlook and India Today rankings of 2007 ... you might say that they correspond to the US News rankings in India. :) How would the adcoms view this?

[wahl]

I'd say that the adcomm will know that your BBA program is highly ranked, and will consider that instead of how your school ranks on the whole. Also, if they've taken students from your school in the past, or if they're familiar at all with foreign grading systems (likely), they won't take your letter grades at face value. Your rank in your class and the rank of your school will be paramount since they won't really know how to convert your grades (unless they've dealt with other students from your school before). They might also consider the grades relative to each other, i.e., where did this student excel and where did he clearly do worse?

[Ancalagon The Black]

wahl:

 

Check out this amazing link.

 

Perspective on Graduate Admissions for International Students, UW-Madison Graduate School

 

 

According to this link, my university is considered to be "good school" whereas IITs are the "top schools"

 

Whats the difference? Can you give an example in the US?

[surana_h]

@ Ancalagon The Black

 

"no one will read my research"

 

Dude, if you have good LORs and proper research papers they sure will. Some of my batch mates also got in top 5 univs with partial aid, despite avg. GREs (1200s) and GPAs. And we are not from IITs, but VIT U, which is a lesser ranked univ. All this because, they had good intl. publications.

 

So, I don't think you have to worry about the univs reading your research, if its published at good conferences.

[Ancalagon The Black]

wahl: I have one more to add. In my PGD, the pass percentage is 50% for all applicants. That is, if 100 applicants apply, about 50 pass out of it... the exams are that rigorous. I can prove this because this statistic is available on the institute website on the official newsletter.

 

Where can I mention this? Is this good or bad?

 

surana_h:

 

I have 8 publications in national and international conferences and in 2 journals (one of them is the journal Management Science) I am actually banking on that.

 

Incidentally, check out the link, Vellore is ranked pretty high by India Today 2007. I am from Jadavpur University.I have loads of friends in Vellore from my school. Which year are you in? Where are you applying?

[wahl]

Hi Ancalagon,

 

The website you referenced is for the whole graduate school, but you are applying to a particular department. That department should know how your school's corresponding department ranks, and it will consider that instead of how your school ranks as a whole.

 

I don't know what exactly they mean by good school vs. top school, but again, this applies to the whole institution, and all that really matters is your department. I mean, if you went to MIT but got your degree in Literature, the fact that you went to a top school wouldn't be much help. Similarly, getting a degree in political science from UChicago might be better than getting the same degree from Harvard, even though in most respects UChicago ranks lower than Harvard.

 

If you think the admissions committee won't be aware that your particular department at Jadavpur is among the best, you could try to demonstrate it by describing your coursework. If your department is rigorous, it will show through in the methods used to teach you, and the projects you were asked to accomplish. I'm a biology undergrad, and many courses at my school have focused on primary literature, mini research projects, and experimental design and analysis. I think that's pretty rare for an undergrad bio program and speaks well for the education I've received, so I mentioned it in my SOP (and in the Relevant Coursework section of my cv). You could talk about the most difficult things your program required of you academically.

 

If what you mean is that after completing the years of training for your PGD, only 50% of applicants are awarded the degree after the final examination, I might mention that in your SOP. But beware because you haven't passed it yet (right?), and they might wonder whether you will succeed. If you do mention it, be careful with your wording. When I first read your comment, I thought you meant the admission rate was 50% based on a hard entry exam...maybe avoid use of the words "apply" and "applicants" and use "candidates" instead.

[Ancalagon The Black]

wahl:

 

Once again, you surpass yourself with this excellent analysis. What I actually meant to say was that getting admission into the PGD is relatively easy but being awarded the degree is difficult because most people do not pass all the examinations. This is because most of the examinations are extremely tough and 50% people fail - this is documented on the official newsletter available on the internet.

 

I have passed all the examinations well and with B grade in all so I do not think that the adcoms will think that I will flunk? I just have my project and 3 examinations left.

 

Meanwhile in my undergraduate curriculum, our course load is the highest amongst any courses - 8 courses per semester of 4 credits each course !! Our methodology is a mixture of case study and quantitative techniques, presentations. We are taught to refer to research and to submit frequent papers on each topic being taught in class and then to defend all our papers in a proseminar. Our coursework is also amongst the best in any BBA program in India (unlike other countries, our coursework remains fixed at the time of entry so this matters a bit here)

 

But, how would one reference these issues in the SOP.... as in using what literary technique - are these passing references, or built up in the form of anecdotes or simply blunt referrals...

[wahl]

Ah okay, I wasn't sure if all of the exams would come at the end. Since you've already passed some (most?) of them, I think it would be good to mention in passing how difficult that program is. Do your schools require a cv? Maybe you could put a little blurb in under the Education heading somewhere.

 

The format of your coursework sounds great. There are several ways to handle this. One is to mention a course or two that "influenced you" (and naturally you choose a class that uses the methodologies you mentioned) in your SOP, and then you describe what your project was for that class, the format of the class, etc. in your description. You could turn that into a short paragraph.

 

Another way to mention your course format is in your cv, which is what I did. A lot of people include a "relevant coursework" section in their cv, but once you've taken a certain number of relevant courses, it's retarded to just list them - anyone can get that information from your transcript. So instead, my cv has a "selected coursework" section. I list the three courses that I feel are most research-oriented, with the name of the professor (which doesn't appear on the transcript) and a 2-3 sentence description of the course format/my project for the course. In my opinion, this is really important because if someone just read the course titles on my transcript, they might think I was just memorizing facts in each of those topics, which is far from the truth and a lot less impressive. Bonus: adds fluff! (Not that you need it with all those publications - is there a jealous smiley? This one will have to do: :notworthy)

[surana_h]

I completed my B Tech (CS) in 07 and currently work at IIITH (LTRC), as a research guy in NLP area.

 

I am applying to many top universities in AI/NLP, mostly for MS, few for PhD. Have a couple of good publications. Also other technical activities during UG including ACM ICPC South Asian finals etc. Have avg. GRE and GPA. - 1470, 5/6 and 8.3/10.

 

Where are you applying and what is your major?

[Ancalagon The Black]

surana:

 

my major is business administration (finance specialization) and post graduate diploma in computer applications being taken at the same time. This is because I am interested in Information Systems/MIS PhD Business programs. I have 8 publications including 1 to the journal Management Science. I have an average GRE (q770, v700, awa 6.0). TOEFL is 119 (all 30 except 1 in speaking section)

 

College record is 70%, which is first class honors and class rank (4/150) I have numerous relevant projects. I am a MCP/MCAD/MCSD/SCJP. I have my own business. I play keyboards in a band which is pretty famous in Kolkata. :D

[Ancalagon The Black]

wahl: The selected coursework section sound great. I have seen relevant coursework before but I think that it was rather en passe. In fact, I think that I will incorporate it into my cv (all business phds require one) and i think that I will also incorporate your suggestions on the sop. The hard part is selecting which are the relevant courses !! In 2 years, I have done 50 odd courses !!

 

My publications are not that impressive. Only one paper has a weak accept to Management Science and I need to improve that a lot before submitting it. My research got torn apart by the peer reviewers but I was so expecting that. The others are in JYI (good journal but only for undergrads), IEEE conferences and other such international and national conferences.

 

Incidentally, how long are you writing your SOPs?

[Ancalagon The Black]

wahl:

 

Other stupid factors in my application which I have been puzzling over.

 

LORS: I am getting 3 splendid and amazing and sing me to glory LORs from 3 professors. One is the director (dean)/ Head of the department who has taught economics classes with me and is a famous economist in India (but not outside I think?) He has a doctorate from JU. The other 2 are full professors (one from construction technology department who is doing a phd in civil engineering in JU and has been my research guide) and the other is a CS/IT professor (my other research guide and has taught IT courses) who is doing his PhD in AI from JU.

 

Will this be seen as detrimential? In India, not all professors in a department, except in IITs and other good engineering colleges have PhDs. Usually, most of them work towards a PhD in the same university whilst teaching in the department. Also, in India, most people get PhDs in their mid 30s or 40s as they first do MS, then work and then if they want to get into academics, they teach so in most cases!!

 

Secondly, even though my university has its own .edu website, profs do not have their own webmail space... but they are willing to send from hotmail or gmail accounts. My own department has its own web site so 2 of my LOR writers will send their LOR from there. Also its .org and not .edu as Indian govt. has restrictions on .edu !! The third will send via hotmail. Will this be looked upon as dubious or fake? Shall I play safe and ask the third prof for a paper LOR as in any case, most universities have forms which need to be filled out and sent...

 

PS: Applications are expensive. DHL alone costs $30 to send even with 50% student discount ... :( and together with GRE/TOEFL/application fees/notary certification fees, total cost per school application is coming to $125 !! :( I will be so broke by the end of this...

[wahl]

I see what you mean about the profs not having Ph.Ds. In most LORs, the recommender lays out his qualifications in the first paragraph: where he works, where he got his education and experience, etc. It's not hard to picture how in your disciplines, having real-world experience would make someone a better teacher than just being a researcher, so I think schools will understand about your professors not having Ph.Ds. However, make sure they mention in their LORs that they are full professors! You don't want it to look like you got a TA to write the letters.

 

I am guessing you should go with the paper LOR for the third prof. You're right, it would seem dubious to have an LOR from a hotmail account. Plus, since he's halfway around the world, a school would have trouble reaching him by phone or by mail to double-check that he really exists. The .org thing is fine, but will both profs be sending from the exact same e-mail address? I guess that might look a little strange, but it will be a lot easier for you than trying to get paper recommendations in time from all three and to ship them so that they arrive by the due date, so I would go with it anyway.

[Ancalagon The Black]

wahl:

 

No no, each professor has his own webmail id in the .org domain so that is not a problem I reckon. I think, that I am going to have to go the paper LOR route for the third guy...

 

Incidentally, I am curious, how do these guys background check? As in, what do they ask them? Is this person really your student? Does he exist? :D

[wahl]

Hehe, actually, I have no clue whether they background check at all, like a real employer would do. You could probably just make up a professor and send in a ridiculously complimentary rec letter. But who knows, maybe if you are really close to being admitted, they'll call up your profs and ask for more info...

[Ancalagon The Black]

wahl: I have been hearing conflicting reports from so many places and they are usually in 2 generic versions:

 

1. International LORs are not seen with enough veracity.

 

2. They call up professors and ask them. I know that Yale school of management has retained Kroll: Home for their MBA programs... its on their website...

[wahl]

Well, I think that calling up profs is a great way to increase veracity, if that's seen as a problem.

 

When they say international LORs aren't seen with enough veracity, there are several things they might mean. First, that it's common in some countries for the student to write the LOR and the professor to sign it. Depending on the country, the school, and the discipline, the prof might not even be able to read what he's signing - not a problem for profs in your field of course.

 

Second, there's just something to be said for having a recommender that the adcomm knows personally. How can they trust someone they've never met, and probably never will, to honestly relay what he/she thinks of you? It doesn't matter to a foreign recommender if Harvard admits a total dud because of their LOR: in fact, the recommender would probably be glad to have given the student a leg up. But because the big profs in the States all know each other, they wouldn't risk looking like idiots in front of their colleagues by backing up a loser. It's a sweeping generalization, but you can see the thought process behind it.

 

Third, it's often unclear what a foreign prof's background and qualifications might be, and there's a lot of snobbery about the American system for earning tenure. So when a foreign professor says that you're the best student of his career or that you're very hardworking, they'll challenge the professor's age and qualifications, e.g. "I doubt a whippersnapper/industry worker/[stereotype] like that would know a bad researcher if he saw one."

 

I'd be lying if I said those prejudices aren't out there. But thankfully your school isn't just "some foreign school," so you should be fine.