Ivy vs Non Ivy

[arxo clay]

I have a few unresolved questions,
I would be very grateful if someone can help with these:

1) What is the basic difference between an ivy college and a non-ivy college
2) Are the fees drastically different for the two
3) Is an ivy better or a college(non-ivy) that has a higher dept rank
4) Do you get scholarships from ivy colleges

Thank you in advance

[CalmLogic]

I'm glad someone has brought up this topic.

Originally Posted by arxo clay

1) What is the basic difference between an ivy college and a non-ivy college

In a word: prestige. But this is far more the case with undergraduate than with graduate school. For computer science, for example, a non-Ivey like CMU has more prestige than Princeton, Cornell, or Harvard for employers like Google or Microsoft.

Originally Posted by arxo clay

2) Are the fees drastically different for the two.

I would think so. One exception is that Cornell has gone down in price recently:
http://www.urch.com/forums/phd-econo...tion-plan.html (The Dean Power Partial Scholarship: Cornell Tuition Reduction Plan)

(Another exception is that Harvard's Extension School is actually cheaper than many state schools for out-of-state students. However, the Harvard Extension School doesn't have the prestige of the other Harvard colleges.)

Originally Posted by arxo clay

3) Is an ivy better or a college(non-ivy) that has a higher dept rank

Good question. For academic jobs, the department rank is definitely most important. For industry, even location can be an issue. For example, Intel hires more people from ASU than any other college, including top-ranked departments like UIUC and UT-Austin and the Iveys like Cornell or Duke:

Jobs at Intel - United States, Student Center, Campus Page

Of course, for small employers that don't engage in college recruiting and don't know anything about USNews department rankings, Ivey schools may seem the best.

In any case, I think the Iveys are overrated as far as the amount of learning that is supposed to go on and the salaries that are earned later in life. For example:

Going to an academically elite college does not necessarily boost your earnings potential, according to a study by Alan Krueger, Thoman and Bendheim Professor in Economics and Public Affairs.

Princeton - PWB 022800 - Economist estimates payoff of elite colleges

The author refers to a study by Stacy Dale, who found no difference in earnings between those students who had gone to Ivy league schools and those who had been accepted at those schools but had chosen to go elsewhere. She even found some indications that students who had applied and been rejected by the very selective colleges were doing just as well twenty years later as those who had gotten in.... It is not the selectivity of the school that one attends, but the character, talent, intelligence, and drive of the student that really matters. The Ivies do not distinguish themselves by "what" they teach, but by "who" they teach.

Amazon.com: Harvard Schmarvard: Getting Beyond the Ivy League to the College That is Best for You: Jay Mathews: Books

[arxo clay]

Originally Posted by CalmLogic

I'm glad someone has brought up this topic.

In a word: prestige. But this is far more the case with undergraduate than with graduate school. For computer science, for example, a non-Ivey like CMU has more prestige than Princeton, Cornell, or Harvard for employers like Google or Microsoft.

I would think so. One exception is that Cornell has gone down in price recently:
http://www.urch.com/forums/phd-econo...tion-plan.html (The Dean Power Partial Scholarship: Cornell Tuition Reduction Plan)

(Another exception is that Harvard's Extension School is actually cheaper than many state schools for out-of-state students. However, the Harvard Extension School doesn't have the prestige of the other Harvard colleges.)

Good question. For academic jobs, the department rank is definitely most important. For industry, even location can be an issue. For example, Intel hires more people from ASU than any other college, including top-ranked departments like UIUC and UT-Austin and the Iveys like Cornell or Duke:

Jobs at Intel - United States, Student Center, Campus Page

Of course, for small employers that don't engage in college recruiting and don't know anything about USNews department rankings, Ivey schools may seem the best.

In any case, I think the Iveys are overrated as far as the amount of learning that is supposed to go on and the salaries that are earned later in life. For example:

thank you that was immensely helpful

[CalmLogic]

BTW, to correct myself, Duke is not an Ivey college:

Ivy League - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[486hunter]

Originally Posted by arxo clay

I have a few unresolved questions,
I would be very grateful if someone can help with these:

1) What is the basic difference between an ivy college and a non-ivy college
2) Are the fees drastically different for the two
3) Is an ivy better or a college(non-ivy) that has a higher dept rank
4) Do you get scholarships from ivy colleges

Thank you in advance

The ivy league is a football conference -- nothing more.
Ivy League - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The eight schools in the ivy league are all well known but so are many others (e.g., MIT, Stanford, U Chicago, Duke, etc). The undergradiate schools in the ivy league do not offer scholarships, but they do offer financial aid based on need. Graduate schools may offer scholarship assistance or stipends.

[macroeconomicus]

Ivy league is a sports league that includes some of the most prestigious and oldest universities in the northeastern United States. Ivy League includes some of the finest universities in the world. At the same time I'd like to point out that neither all of the top universities are Ivy League members nor some of the Ivy League schools are exactly completely dominating non-Ivy league universities in most dimensions (Brown, Cornell come to mind).

For example, private universities like MIT, Caltech, CMU, Nothwestern, University of Chicago, Stanford, Duke, Rice as well as some great public universities such as UC Berkeley, UCLA, or Michigan are not Ivy League schools, while they're certainly just as good in many if not most dimensions as the Ivy League schools.

Now, if you compare the fees of the Ivy League schools to comprable non-Ivy league universities, the fees are about the same for private universities, but lower at public schools. Ivy league, as well as most of other universities I mentioned, have very good financial aid packages for undergraduate and graduate students. Regarding the prestige factor vs departmental ranking, I can see the former being more important at undergraduate level, but departmental ranking, and more importantly the faculty interests, becomes far more important at the graduate level.