What is a decent V for a non-native speaker?

[Ivo]

Hello everyone,

i've heard that the interpretation of scores on V (possibly AWA too?) for non-native English speakers differs from the native ones? ie. the schools take into consideration applicant's language background. If that is the case, what would be then a decent (still accaptable) score on V (AWA) when applying to Ivy League schools - I am thinking of Standford, Princeton and Yale - PhD in Political Science.
thank you all for your comments in advance.

ivo
(i am Czech)

[Econ]

Yes, I have heard the same thing, but I don't know if admission officers apply it except maybe for very rare cases (e.g. in low V scores for non-native speakers). Anyway, in my opinion:

For verbal:

700+: exceptional, belonging to the top 1-2%
650-700: outstanding, belonging to the top 5-10%
600-650: very good to excellent
550-600: good
500-550: decent
450-500: still acceptable for some math-intensive disciplines and for non-natives
400-450: low
200-400: problems arise!

For Q:

800: a category by its own
760-790: very good to excellent
700-750: good to very good
....

Of course the characterizations depend on the field as well, but I think that this is a rough guide.

For the univ and the field that you are aiming it is a plus (but neither necessary nor sufficient for admission) to have excellent scores, i.e. 600+ in V and 750+ in Q

[peterv]

Strictly speaking:

V 700 is 96th percentile; so, the top 4% of verbal test takers score 700+.

V 650 is 91st percentile; so, thus score in the [650, 700] range are in the top 9% of Verbal test takers. You may think of 660 Verbal as roughly equivalent to 800 Quantitative.

The median for the Verbal part is around 470.

Have you taken the test already? If not, then my advice would be that you focus your efforts to maximize your scores rather on how the admission committee will interpret them. Also, since you are going to pursue studies in Political Science get into the habit of reading the "Foreign Affairs" magazine... Will be of interest to you and help you with advanced vocab...

Na shledanou!

[Ivo]

Hello "Econ" and "Peterv",

thank you both for your replies. I know now what I need to be aiming at.

As to Peter, you're totally right: the only way how to pull this off is to study hard and not worry about anything else - as a matter of facts, I am craming for the GRE everyday. I have not taken the test yet and honestly i am more than anxious about it. I've got very good study results from my undegrad. + masters, quite a bit of international experiences; the only thing I am lacking these days is enough TIME though - and that's not good for my preparation at all. I need to sit the test in two-months time from now on; unfortunatelly i am working here in Korea and so I can study only in the evenings and during weekends.

dekuji a cau

ivo

[econgirl]

Ahoj, vitam krajana:-)

I think that you should reach 530+ if you want to pursue a degree in poli-sci, which is a verbose field. A lower score could count heavily against you. If I were you, I would invest as much time as possible into boosting my vocabulary.
That being said, I must admit that my knowledge of the admission rules in your field is very limited.
If you wish, I can share with you the word lists with examples that I used for my own preparation (710 in verbal, 97th percentile - cool for a non-native, unfortunately close to irrelevant in economics). Just write a PM. To prevent a flood of messages from other participants of this forum, I should stress that the lists would be of little use for people who do not speak Czech.

[Dingus]

Originally Posted by peterv

Strictly speaking:
Na shledanou!

This is off-topic. So peter, you speak Czech too? Could I have an approximate idea of the number of languages you know?

[Econ]

Originally Posted by Dingus

So peter, you speak Czech too?

,

[Ivo]

Ahoj "Econgirl",

thanks for the offer .i'd be very grateful indeed if you could provide me with your list. 710 on Verbal, outstanding, no doubt about it .
I've just sent you a PM which contains my own email address.
Hope to hear from you,
ivo

[Dr. Watson]

Here is what I know:

I think many Chineese and Indian students have high verbal scores (~700). I don't know if it helps them getting admitted.

I know a person from Russia who had 370 in Verbal and got admitted to MIT and CalTech.

I scored V 750 and got admitted to MIT and Stanford (Electrican Engineering PhD). I am not a native speaker. I failed AW section (4.5, 52%)

Most people from my country I knew scored ~400-500 and got admitted, but not to top schools.

It is difficult to say how important are V scores because there are so many other factors in the application. I would say that you should have descent scores to get admitted to top schools. If you scored 350 and I scored 750, your application will look a little weaker than mine, which can matter for top schools which are selecting among strong candidates.

BTW, I think this is so foolish to demand international students to take GRE Verbal test... It is possible to score high on Verbal without knowing English well, and it is possible to fail V with excellent English. What do they want to measure with V test? They measure if the person (a) is hard-working, and (b) if the person have enough time for preparation, but not how clever the person is. Another foolish thing is that ETS consider both native and non-native speakers when calculating percentiles. Unified percentiles is an invalid approach, because it is much easier to score high for native speakers than for internationals. It also matters which is you first language. It is much easier to score high for French people than for Chineese people. Verbal part is invalid for internationals. I hope admissions committees think the same, but I am not sure. It is better to score higher, but of course there are more important parts of the application than V score.

[Ivo]

Hello "Dr. Watson",

thanks for your reply.
I do share the opinion with you that it's highly arguable to what extent can the V part really determine whether an int'l applicant is a high-quality candidate or not. I do think, however, that the AWA tells a lot about the potential of each of us - at least in the field of social sciences.
anyhow, it's surely true that in general the whole application packet matters more rather than it's individual parts.

ivo