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cubicle · 2009 October 13th, 05:58 PM

Ok. This might not be the right forum to do this. But testmagic is one such place which helped me, supported me to full extent. Therefore, I count this as a little bit giving back.

This post is for all those fellow soldiers with profile like

1. BE/Btech from non-IIT college (does not matter if the college is BITS or NIT or something even lesser known)
2. Has experience in IT services for Indian companies (TCS/Infy/Wipro etc)
3. Is a male
Now you have enuf experience in your daily existence of IT( which for 90% cases are a little far from 'pleasant') and you wanat to embark in a journey called MBA admission.
Now guess what is your biggest determining factor when it comes to a B-School to choose you.
(No Prize for guessing) your GMAT score.
So, the question is how good a GMAT score is required?
it's not 700, its not 720 for an Indian/IT/male the norm is (hold your breath) : 750+
yep 7-5-0 not a penny less (good if a few pennies more).
The reason is pretty simple. Most of the time adcom can not rely on your GPA/CGPA/percentage based system due to their lack of knowledge in your undergrad program's rigor and reputation.
if a college gets 2000 apps, be assured to have at least 700+ profiles with 2 years in IT project management 2 years in onsite kind of profiles.
The extraC factor is again does not comply with US standard often where a student is encouraged to pursue at least one activity beyond acadmics when we are busy to juggle between Brilliant tutorials/ Fiit-jee :P

So GMAT with all its changing difficulties stands as the sore thumb in the whole game.
to prove my point, again, I have my small statistical effort. Here it goes

Chicago GSB-- admit from IT pool for class of 2011-- 3 persons amongthem average GMAT 750
Kellogg--admit form IT pool for class of 2011-- no data-- my coeespondence has GMAt 770
MIT--admit form IT pool for class of 2011--- around 5 (telephonic sample collection) -- avergae GMAt among them 750
Duke---admit form IT pool for class of 2011---around 7 (telephonic sample collection) --avergae GMAt among them 750
Ross---admit form IT pool for class of 2011---around 7 (telephonic sample collection) --avergae GMAt among them 760
Boston university (not a top 10, or well 20)---around 10-12average GMAT among them 720+

and the sample collection is still on.

and add to that there is one Indian upcoming institute that boast of its scrutiny on Indian IT male's GMAT score like anything.

So by luck or by choice,we are in an industry which are looked down upon across B-Schools.
So fasten your seat belt and anyone aiming for top-20 or some super snob schools don't stop till u get that magic number (and in the process make GMAC richer by 250$ evry time u take the test) !!!

ChandraXXX · 2009 October 13th, 06:53 PM

Good analysis. I am not sure about US school, but I know few very good non-US school stress more on essays and interviews.

Still its frustrated to see that US top schools doesn't rely on indian college grades.

finsisher · 2009 October 13th, 07:02 PM

I second you,

this so called upcoming indian school has recently been only admitting student over 740+ and rejecting the student below 720+ giving one reason or other.
I know of people who have little to show other than gmat(770) IT male and have got an admit but also know of people who have lot to show other than gmat (700-720) IT. and rejected no concrete reasons

eravi11 · 2009 October 13th, 07:23 PM

agree word by word as mentioned by cubicle..
A bitter pill to swallow(in fact already swallowed,now facing the aftermath)

R1P · 2009 October 14th, 09:52 AM

Oops!! was feeling relaxed when improved from 530 to 700. Way to go!! Another retake!!

adi_800 · 2009 October 14th, 06:02 PM

One more case of ISB..
My frd...from MNC in india but kinda IT exp..
GMAT 710...interview call from ISB...
She was happy...
went in..was asked to write on something n den was asked 4 questions..
She answered all 4 very well...
After 4th questions..she was told we cant take u further....
The important thing is...Same year i went in for ISB session.. person over there said...we have a ratio of 8:5:1...8 applications. 5 interview calls n one admit...N that guy stressed on the idea that we want to make it this ratio as big as possible..somthing like 20:8:1.. So as to make it the toughest skool to get into n make sure that we are amongst the top notch institute...
If you are aiming for top 20 n you are from elite group of "IT", then you are in a total mess...

sk_gmat · 2009 October 15th, 12:04 AM

I am not surprised by the analysis. However, what surprises me is the willingness of such IT folks to surrender even after knowing the truth of admission criteria. I can bet that no American is as good as Indians in Maths (or analytical abilities), but yet we need to score more than 750 to hope for a seat in US universities. Why, because every 3rd person wants to do MBA and so do I. I would like to mention that our Maths, our analytical skills and our IT skills are our strength and not weakness. If someone does not realise it, let them not. We have to score 750 in GMAT, we have to excel in extracurricular activities, we need to struggle for loan to pay THEM $100k and then work harder than everyone else to repay the loan - why just because our strength is IT and not something else? We are far better than those scoring high in English because that's the only language the have been using since their birth - what's so great about it then? Anyway...
Americans score well in Verbal because it's their mother tongue. I can't imagine how miserable would be the performances of non-Indians, if Indians were running GMAC making Hindi as the verbal language rather than English :-) I pat guys who score high on GMAT as we learn an additional language in spite of slogging hours in office. We deserve an applaud...we the IT males (females as well)

I am not against GMAT or US universities. However, I feel bad that we are so much helpless knowing the bitter truth. GMAT is not the end of MBA dream or the end of a high-calibre career. Many people think MBA is path to success. And a MBA degree would fetch them everything what a IT job could not. Ironically, MBA graduates suffered most in this recession and are still suffering. Make sure about your goal of doing MBA. Without that, just a dream of switching from IT to something else may land you up at the mercy of people who hardly care about you. So, take GMAT but don't make it appear like a tyrant whom we need to serve. If you feel frustrated failing in GMAT, turn all that energy into something more useful / fruitful. If you put your heart in what you want to do, success would be yours. MBA is one way, not the ONLY way.

Being an Indian, and having given GMAT I realise how much time and money it cost us to prepare for this exam and then still be at the mercy of adcom just because we are from IT. What the heck ! I mean, IT is not our weakness, it is our strength. I am from the same pool and I feel really bad when adcom turns down IT applicants. May be they do not realize the potential that we carry, or may be we do not realize what we are good at. Next time you feel low about being an IT male, just remember that GMAC itself is a CAT exam (an IT based exam); moreover, remember that GMAT or MBA is not something that is going to fetch you your dreams, it is you and only you who can fetch your dreams. So go ahead, dream big and make it happening. GMAT/MBA or without GMAT/MBA, who cares !

Apologies for writing something tangential to the thread, but I could not stop myself from putting this down. I keep reading about this rat race, and feel bad that we complain about IT male pool, but still we want to do it because we are Indians - we always compromise and learn to adjust. I will be very happy the day India would conduct exams for non-Indians to make them study or work in India. And I can bet such days would be closer had everyone been thinking about dreaming big, not racing seeing the crowd.

SnowinGreen · 2009 October 15th, 12:25 AM

Very true ,but every fox tries its turn before turning down the grapes.

still in the journey to taste it..

smtripathi · 2009 October 15th, 06:54 AM

hey SK_GMAT,

I agree completely on your thoughts. I too have stats that IT/Indian/engineering are quite hot at many firms when it comes to recruits (IB, MC etc). So, IT/engineering is not a weakness!

shaanrizvi · 2009 October 15th, 07:51 AM

sk_gmat, I don't know if you have taken the GMAT already but I can bet you didn't score much on Critical Reasoning. Just because it is harder for Indian IT people to get into those top schools, you can't conclude that the Adcoms consider the skills you mentioned "weaknesses". Of course it is not a weakness to have such a background and every school knows that.

Yes, it is tougher to get in but it is not because those top schools consider your IT background a "weakness". It is because there are so many people from this pool that they can't possibly take everyone. Just imagine the number of applications they get from this Indian IT applicants pool. This is how they work. They are interested in diversity. If they weren't, their student bodies would mainly consist of Indians and Chinese!

They want to know what YOU will bring to the table. And they probably rely on the GMAT not because they doubt the rigor of Indian university studies but because they get applications from all over the world and in such a situation, it would be very hard to compare grades from different systems.

2009 October 13th, 05:58 PM	#1 (permalink)
cubicle TestMagic Guru-in-Training Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 873	Elegy for Indian IT Male Ok. This might not be the right forum to do this. But testmagic is one such place which helped me, supported me to full extent. Therefore, I count this as a little bit giving back. This post is for all those fellow soldiers with profile like 1. BE/Btech from non-IIT college (does not matter if the college is BITS or NIT or something even lesser known) 2. Has experience in IT services for Indian companies (TCS/Infy/Wipro etc) 3. Is a male Now you have enuf experience in your daily existence of IT( which for 90% cases are a little far from 'pleasant') and you wanat to embark in a journey called MBA admission. Now guess what is your biggest determining factor when it comes to a B-School to choose you. (No Prize for guessing) your GMAT score. So, the question is how good a GMAT score is required? it's not 700, its not 720 for an Indian/IT/male the norm is (hold your breath) : 750+ yep 7-5-0 not a penny less (good if a few pennies more). The reason is pretty simple. Most of the time adcom can not rely on your GPA/CGPA/percentage based system due to their lack of knowledge in your undergrad program's rigor and reputation. if a college gets 2000 apps, be assured to have at least 700+ profiles with 2 years in IT project management 2 years in onsite kind of profiles. The extraC factor is again does not comply with US standard often where a student is encouraged to pursue at least one activity beyond acadmics when we are busy to juggle between Brilliant tutorials/ Fiit-jee :P So GMAT with all its changing difficulties stands as the sore thumb in the whole game. to prove my point, again, I have my small statistical effort. Here it goes Chicago GSB-- admit from IT pool for class of 2011-- 3 persons amongthem average GMAT 750 Kellogg--admit form IT pool for class of 2011-- no data-- my coeespondence has GMAt 770 MIT--admit form IT pool for class of 2011--- around 5 (telephonic sample collection) -- avergae GMAt among them 750 Duke---admit form IT pool for class of 2011---around 7 (telephonic sample collection) --avergae GMAt among them 750 Ross---admit form IT pool for class of 2011---around 7 (telephonic sample collection) --avergae GMAt among them 760 Boston university (not a top 10, or well 20)---around 10-12average GMAT among them 720+ and the sample collection is still on. and add to that there is one Indian upcoming institute that boast of its scrutiny on Indian IT male's GMAT score like anything. So by luck or by choice,we are in an industry which are looked down upon across B-Schools. So fasten your seat belt and anyone aiming for top-20 or some super snob schools don't stop till u get that magic number (and in the process make GMAC richer by 250$ evry time u take the test) !!! _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ rhymes with luck *chaNd saanse khareedne ke liye/roz thoDi si zindagi bechi*

2009 October 13th, 06:53 PM	#2 (permalink)
ChandraXXX Within my grasp! Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 343	Good analysis. I am not sure about US school, but I know few very good non-US school stress more on essays and interviews. Still its frustrated to see that US top schools doesn't rely on indian college grades. _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

2009 October 14th, 06:02 PM	#6 (permalink)
adi_800 Yes...I can!! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pune, India Posts: 1,328	One more case of ISB.. My frd...from MNC in india but kinda IT exp.. GMAT 710...interview call from ISB... She was happy... went in..was asked to write on something n den was asked 4 questions.. She answered all 4 very well... After 4th questions..she was told we cant take u further.... The important thing is...Same year i went in for ISB session.. person over there said...we have a ratio of 8:5:1...8 applications. 5 interview calls n one admit...N that guy stressed on the idea that we want to make it this ratio as big as possible..somthing like 20:8:1.. So as to make it the toughest skool to get into n make sure that we are amongst the top notch institute... If you are aiming for top 20 n you are from elite group of "IT", then you are in a total mess... _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ CHAK DE GMAT!!

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2009 October 13th, 07:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
finsisher TestMagic Guru Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,845	I second you, this so called upcoming indian school has recently been only admitting student over 740+ and rejecting the student below 720+ giving one reason or other. I know of people who have little to show other than gmat(770) IT male and have got an admit but also know of people who have lot to show other than gmat (700-720) IT. and rejected no concrete reasons

2009 October 13th, 07:23 PM	#4 (permalink)
eravi11 So far So bad! Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 631	agree word by word as mentioned by cubicle.. A bitter pill to swallow(in fact already swallowed,now facing the aftermath)

2009 October 14th, 09:52 AM	#5 (permalink)
R1P I JUST got here. Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 11	Oops!! was feeling relaxed when improved from 530 to 700. Way to go!! Another retake!!

2009 October 15th, 12:04 AM	#7 (permalink)
sk_gmat Thinking big.. Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: London Posts: 138	I am not surprised by the analysis. However, what surprises me is the willingness of such IT folks to surrender even after knowing the truth of admission criteria. I can bet that no American is as good as Indians in Maths (or analytical abilities), but yet we need to score more than 750 to hope for a seat in US universities. Why, because every 3rd person wants to do MBA and so do I. I would like to mention that our Maths, our analytical skills and our IT skills are our strength and not weakness. If someone does not realise it, let them not. We have to score 750 in GMAT, we have to excel in extracurricular activities, we need to struggle for loan to pay THEM $100k and then work harder than everyone else to repay the loan - why just because our strength is IT and not something else? We are far better than those scoring high in English because that's the only language the have been using since their birth - what's so great about it then? Anyway... Americans score well in Verbal because it's their mother tongue. I can't imagine how miserable would be the performances of non-Indians, if Indians were running GMAC making Hindi as the verbal language rather than English :-) I pat guys who score high on GMAT as we learn an additional language in spite of slogging hours in office. We deserve an applaud...we the IT males (females as well) I am not against GMAT or US universities. However, I feel bad that we are so much helpless knowing the bitter truth. GMAT is not the end of MBA dream or the end of a high-calibre career. Many people think MBA is path to success. And a MBA degree would fetch them everything what a IT job could not. Ironically, MBA graduates suffered most in this recession and are still suffering. Make sure about your goal of doing MBA. Without that, just a dream of switching from IT to something else may land you up at the mercy of people who hardly care about you. So, take GMAT but don't make it appear like a tyrant whom we need to serve. If you feel frustrated failing in GMAT, turn all that energy into something more useful / fruitful. If you put your heart in what you want to do, success would be yours. MBA is one way, not the ONLY way. Being an Indian, and having given GMAT I realise how much time and money it cost us to prepare for this exam and then still be at the mercy of adcom just because we are from IT. What the heck ! I mean, IT is not our weakness, it is our strength. I am from the same pool and I feel really bad when adcom turns down IT applicants. May be they do not realize the potential that we carry, or may be we do not realize what we are good at. Next time you feel low about being an IT male, just remember that GMAC itself is a CAT exam (an IT based exam); moreover, remember that GMAT or MBA is not something that is going to fetch you your dreams, it is you and only you who can fetch your dreams. So go ahead, dream big and make it happening. GMAT/MBA or without GMAT/MBA, who cares ! Apologies for writing something tangential to the thread, but I could not stop myself from putting this down. I keep reading about this rat race, and feel bad that we complain about IT male pool, but still we want to do it because we are Indians - we always compromise and learn to adjust. I will be very happy the day India would conduct exams for non-Indians to make them study or work in India. And I can bet such days would be closer had everyone been thinking about dreaming big, not racing seeing the crowd.

2009 October 15th, 12:25 AM	#8 (permalink)
SnowinGreen Manhattanist !! Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: READING UK Posts: 31	Very true ,but every fox tries its turn before turning down the grapes. still in the journey to taste it..

2009 October 15th, 06:54 AM	#9 (permalink)
smtripathi Within my grasp! Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 134	hey SK_GMAT, I agree completely on your thoughts. I too have stats that IT/Indian/engineering are quite hot at many firms when it comes to recruits (IB, MC etc). So, IT/engineering is not a weakness!

2009 October 15th, 07:51 AM	#10 (permalink)
shaanrizvi 680 to 750. HELP! Join Date: May 2006 Location: Helsinki Posts: 123	sk_gmat, I don't know if you have taken the GMAT already but I can bet you didn't score much on Critical Reasoning. Just because it is harder for Indian IT people to get into those top schools, you can't conclude that the Adcoms consider the skills you mentioned "weaknesses". Of course it is not a weakness to have such a background and every school knows that. Yes, it is tougher to get in but it is not because those top schools consider your IT background a "weakness". It is because there are so many people from this pool that they can't possibly take everyone. Just imagine the number of applications they get from this Indian IT applicants pool. This is how they work. They are interested in diversity. If they weren't, their student bodies would mainly consist of Indians and Chinese! They want to know what YOU will bring to the table. And they probably rely on the GMAT not because they doubt the rigor of Indian university studies but because they get applications from all over the world and in such a situation, it would be very hard to compare grades from different systems.

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