My chances???? And which approach????

[phantom007]

Hi all

Guess I'm going to join the band wagon, and request some feedback.

Background - complated a four year degree from a good uni in Australia in 2003. Major was Comp Sci and Info Systems. Also did a few extra papers in International Business, not just first stage electives, but managed to do one second stage and two third stage papers. My overall GPA is approx a US 3.1. However in Int Bus and Math/Stat papers my average is approx a US 3.5. My worst grades were in Comp Sci. Looking back,the Comp Sci courses just didn't interest me, and consequiently I didn't put much effort into them and hence the weak grades.

Have been working for the past year and a half as a Business Analyst. First job after u-grad was for a MNC outsourcing house, and I left that place as they made my role redundant (among others - they lost some impt clients). Current role is with the world's largest mobile telecommunications service provider, a Fortune 100 company. The work exp I've had to date has been great, and I've had good responsibility by way of client facing work (first role) and representing an entire business unit in company wide initiatives (current role). My work is mostly operations, process improvement etc.

While at university, as an entreprenurial venture, I initiated the due dilligence for a multi million dollar property development venture in one of the most prestigious locations in my city, for a local property development firm. I basically managed the entire range of activities, right from securing a contract, outsourcing due dilligence activities to several agencies (architects, valuers, sales agents, builders, regulatory bodies etc), preparing a business plan for securing funding, and working with speculative lending institutions and wealthy private financiers to develop a financing and under-writing package for the deal. I managed to get indicative offers of funding for 80% of the deal, which was a major achievment, given that the proposed deal involved minimal cash injections from the development firm, and it was a hugely speculative venture. However, after conducing full due dilligence, I recommended to the directors of the development firm that the margins in this venture don't justify the risk. So, after some further "back and forth" negotiations, I recommended we let this deal go. Bottom line - this was fantastic exposure for me, and allowed me to take charge of some highly strategic issues, all on my own initiative.

While at university, I also initiated a web based business with two partners, and after some lucrative (well, lucrative by "first year u-grad student" standards) contracts, I phased myself away from the triumverate, as I found I had too much on my plate. While at university, I also played competitive club level sports (rugby, cricket and tennis), and actively particapated in a very prominent Lions club.

Since I started working, I have continued playing club level sport, am now learning French (hope to be some what conversant in a few months), have been invited to head up one of the key committees at my Lions Club (a real honour given that at 23 I'm by far the youngest club member) and am also an active member of a Toastmasters club.

Also, I've so far lived and studied in three countries, been a head of school, senior prefect, and had some interesting entrepreneurial experience (ran the canteen as my own undertaking, in my spare time) while a high school student at a boarding school.

I'm very keen to do an MBA from a top 10 school. I'm concerned that my GPA is on the low side. I'm pretty confident of getting a good GMAT score, in excess of 710 (based on my scores in practise tests and because I'm extremely motivated). My options are:

1) Continue working and try to gain more leadership and responsibility at work. Also contiunue all my extra curriculars. Get a top GMAT score and apply next year to start the MBA in 2007. When I apply in say Nov next year I'll have close to three years work experience. When I start the MBA in 2007 I'll have three and a half years exp and will be 25.

2) Do a one year Masters in Finance from a top uni in Aussie. I'll do this with top grades, and this will hopefully allow me to transition into careers of my choice like Strategy/Mgmt Consulting or I-banking (M&A) or (hopefully) Private Equity in Australia. Then I can work for say two years, and apply to top 10 MBA programs.

What do you feel my chances to get into a top 10 school are, with my current credentials?

Do you feel a Masters in Finance with top grades and the subsequent work experience will add significant value to my candidature?

While it's cheaper and more time effective to go straight for the MBA, I'll be 25 if I do things as per option 1, with three and a half years of exp. Will this be to young to fully leverage an MBA?

Your thoughts are most valued. Thanks.

[phantom007]

Hello compadres.....i realise my post above is a long one....but am really keen to hear some honest constructive feedback. So.....don;t hold back....let the thoughts roll in.

GMATBong.....where r u? Erin..I could use your input too.

[GMATbong]

alright alright. Mr? ausie.. I wasn't too keen on reading your long post as it reminds me of my GMAT reading comp.

OK.. after finishing your post, I hope your "why MBA,why Now" doesn't look like anything close to your post since it looks like you are confused on what you want to do and it shows in your brief work exp. And as for your age, I really would suggest you to stay put for one year or better, 2 and apply to maximize your chances to get in. start some clubs if you will if H is your dream school.

Skip the Master of finance, no point on doing it really if you are going for MBA. And frankly, I don't see Master of Finance will get you that PE or MC jobs.

Skip the talk on High School unless you are applying with less than 2 years of exp.

Your grade might be a issue so you really need GMAT to be higher to compesent your GPA. Nevertheless, what's your last 2 years of GPA compare to the first 2 years. Were you working while in school?

One thing is I'm unsure of but I am guessing you are male and white. If you are not, you have a vey good shot at all top-5 schools.

And btw, I am confused about the paper stage references and my take on bschool, publication doesn't play a big role unless you are applying in the true academic schools such as econ PHD.

And yes, if I were you, I will spin on leadership and entrep. exp. for most top-10 schools except S. For S, I will spin it on something else such as your background. (Disclaimer, I got ding by S but I do know some successful S applicants. If you nail the eassy A, you will have a chance). For H, better do more leadership role and H can care less about your GPA if its > 3. For W, at age 25, you are a little too green.

[phantom007]

Hey there

Thanks for your post

Yes, I know that given that I'm already in my second job with only a year and half of work exp does indicate some inability to stick and shine in one place. But as alluded to - my role was made redundant in the fist job, so rather than take on a position they offered me, which while challenging and interesting, was not in my industry of choice, I chose to move on to my current role - a hugely identiable brand. Plus the nature of the work and the prospects it offers me are much better.

Where do I want to go - post MBA I'm keen to get into (me and 20000 others!!!!) Strat Consulting, M&A banking, PE, or maybe the sell side of a Hedge Fund. Difficult sectors to break into- yea I know. Hence the importance to do the mBA at the right pls.

GPA - first year was best, top 10% of class. Entry from first to second year was reserved for the top 25 students (first yr class of abt 120), so I worked hard and got a 3.7 in that year. Subsequent years saw more weak grades, mostly in Comp Sci papers - just didn't find them interesting. Bottom line, I don't regret those instances where I got weak grades, because they really really taught me heaps abt my true interests, vulnerabilities and capabilities. Now I'm in a place where I'm passionate abt what I do, choose what I do to match my interests and as a consequence take huge ownership and accountability for whatever I do, and more often than not, do it well. However, I know that my GAP will count against me. Hence the idea of doing that Masters in Fin - will give me the chance to get top grades. Plus, while by no means any guarantee, it should open up interviews to MC firms or i-banks. I've built up lots of contacts in these industries, and have gopt feedback from those in the game that my GPA (or lack of it) is the biggest show stopper for me right now w.r.t to getting into top Strat consulting or I-banking firms.

"One thing is I'm unsure of but I am guessing you are male and white " >>>> male - yes. White - no. And I'm not clear on what you mean by "If you are not, you have a very good shot at all top-5 schools." So given that I'm male but not white, does that still give me as good a shot at top 5 as if I were female and not white?????

So you feel that with a top GMAT, harvard, Stanford, Wharton will overlook the weaker u-grad grades???? What abt columbia, Chic, LBS??? My prference would be H, W, Chic, Columb, LBS, Stanf.


Btw, what is your profile (without giving away your anonymity) - sex/ethnicity/u-grad/mba/job???? Just curious thats all.

Thanks

[GMATbong]

I would say you might want to hang around a tad longer like a year in your current job to show some growth in your responsibility. It will look better on your app.

>Where do I want to go - post MBA I'm keen to get into (me and 20000 >others!!!!) Strat Consulting, M&A banking, PE, or maybe the sell side of a >Hedge Fund. Difficult sectors to break into- yea I know. Hence the >importance to do the mBA at the right pls.

It's OK to think about this later on but for the app. Please pick *only* one of the above. MC, PE,HF, & M&A are all very different stuff. And to be safe, I wouldn't put PE,HF as part of your app since they will wonder what do you know about HF and PE as they are the most difficult to get into and you have no prior exp.

For M&A and MC, pick one that fit your story and stick to it.

Don't worry that much about GPA since what's done is done but do consider taking more classes at night to built a alternative transcript if you will. Going for master of finance is overblown and if you do come back and apply again for MBA after ms. of Finance in 3 years, you will have to explain away why you pick a career and then another career. It will only shown poor judgement on your part as you're wondering around.

Let me say this, most MBAs don't know what they want to do. But to get in, everyone (OK, most) pretained they know exactly what they want to do so it's a game.

I wouldn't not advise you to go for Ms. of Finance unless you want to go to ibank and most ibanker will then head back to MBA to change fields.
And Master of finance is not a traditional feeder place to MC.

male but not white? (Asian by any chance?) You have higher chances if you are aboriginal aussie, of course. The less representative in Aussie the better. Better yet, the most discrimanated against class (be it race, social standing, class) will have a better chance. If Adcom were to pick someone from south africa, they will likely pick the black south african more so than the white south african. (Assuming they both qualify but not equal)

Being female and not white give an edge in shooting at top 5 as you bring in more diversity to the class. Being just non-white and male, well... depends on your background again. If your background is from, say, Laos or sumatra, you will stand a better chance than if you are from India or singapore.

>So you feel that with a top GMAT, harvard, Stanford, Wharton will overlook >the weaker u-grad grades???? What abt columbia, Chic, LBS??? My prference >would be H, W, Chic, Columb, LBS, Stanf.

Yes. But really please stop thinking about schools first, just do the darn test. Thinking what score you need to get to get in will only feed more anxiety during the test. Repost after you are done with the test.

>Btw, what is your profile (without giving away your anonymity) - >sex/ethnicity/u-grad/mba/job???? Just curious thats all.

hahah.. OK. I actually took testmagic to prep my GMAT so erin must be real happy that I am posting stuff here. M/Asian/Wisconsin/MBA (not started yet. Doing a joint degree with MBA at W and international dev at H. FYI, didn't apply to HBS due to my age)/job - 7 years of Software/hardware tech sector and half a year in boutique M&A i-bank

[phantom007]

Hey again

Good point - better for me to focus more on acing the GMAT. After all, if I do end up with a mediocre score then no amt of talking an planning for H/S/W/Col/Chi will materialise. First things first right.

Re Masters in Fin.....i've spoken to loads of ppl abt it, and most have advised me to go st for the MBA. But, dunno why, I feel that acing the Masters will give me a good shot at getting into M&A or Strat Cons......and the good grades in the Masters will only help any MBA app later on. Also, the whole drama abt MBA exists predominantly in the US and US dependent markets overseas. Down under in Aus, degrees matter but only to a point. I've met loads of bankers and consultants who haven't done the traditional route of u-grad, two to four yrs work exp and then an MBA. So, the way I see it, the Masters (done with top grades of course) might allow me to get into M&A or Strat Cons....and then I may not even have to do an MBA. Of course, the option is always there and when the time is right, I can always give it a shot. But bottom line, I don;t feel there'll be an industry or firm induced pressure to go to B-School.

Another idea of course is, as you suggested, to do u-grad level papers (say in Econ and/or Int Bus) at my uni over the next two years. These will be done part time while working full time (say 2 papers each semester). So by end next year I can probably do abt 5 papers; acing these will develop an alternative transcript and record of academic excellence.

Then again, end of the day, I don't want to go on studying. There should be more to my twenties than just spending time on a uni campus. Idea should be to do one post grad course, and do it well.

Ahhhh, decisions decisions....!!!!!!