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takku · 06-18-2007, 02:00 PM

Hey,
I was wondering whether anyone listen to this and try to resolve it.. Any way we can pray and wait...

ylynnly · 06-18-2007, 03:11 PM

I agree with Emac.
The communication needs both Speaking and Listenning.Why NABP just focuses on speaking and set high standard while listenning is only on the average? What happend if pharmacists got wrong information from patients? It is unreasonable standard.

Thank you very much for your great efforts.
Lynn

emac · 06-18-2007, 04:30 PM

knok,
I am ready to print. I read both final drafts and it seems good enough for me. You know that when it comes to a project like this you will always have the feeling that you could do better. But beleive me this is a good one. Perfect is nothing and the most important that we all, especially you, have put our best efforts to make it clear, easy to understand and explanatory enough, and we did it.
Let's just set a date for everyone to have it mail it. Every single letter from us should be at the post offfice the same day, so they receive it in NABP the same day too. That's how is going to make a huge impact.
2nd, remember the checking list we talked about, so everyone knows what to do and where to send both letter.
Thanks again, I am waiting for your green light to send it,
emac

knok · 06-18-2007, 06:34 PM

We were confused last night about the references. I was dizzy after looking back and forth. At first, I had the references ordered alphabetically. Then, I got the references which were ordered by which references were found first in the article. Finally, I ordered alphabetically in the TOEFL iBT complaint and which were found first in the NABP petition. I know that it is consistent. What do you suggest for this issue? Which one would you should? Please suggest.

In addition, we have two more topics to add in the TOEFL iBT Complaint. First, the different number of passages on the reading and listening passages which each of us have to do on the TOEFL iBT can be an argument. We think that it is unfair. Everyone should get the same amount of questions. It seems that ETS just wants to worn us out by giving 5 passages for the reading section before doing the speaking section. Test takers are not allowed to go to the rest room in any sessions. It is impossible to go to the rest room during the reading because the reading was divided into 2-3 sessions.

1 reading passage ---20 minutes
2 reading passages-- 40 minutes
2 reading passages. ---40 minutes

Can anyone give me the exact minutes we have for each session? Correct me if I am wrong. Thanks.

I feel that there should be a break during the 100 minute session of the reading before we go on the reading session.

In the TOEFL computer-based, it has 3 passages. We can use the time during the session of 55 minutes to go to the rest room. If we lose 5 minutes for the reading in Computer-based, it won't hurt. But if we lose 5 minutes in a small session in iBT (20 minutes each), we may be in trouble to get a high score. In iBT, you cannot sacrify minutes during small sessions in the reading.

It is impossible to go to the rest room during the listening because we have to listen.

Please help me do these additional issues. If anyone of us can help me write these two issues in a short paragraph, it would be great. If not, we may skip them all. I feel that these issues are related to health problems, which is a big concern.

I am kind of exhausted. If no one writes about these issues, we may just skip them.

Thanks.

Knok

selena · 06-18-2007, 07:45 PM

1 reading passage ---20 minutes
2 reading passages-- 40 minutes
2 reading passages. ---40 minutes
That is right.
In the same test center some test takers got 3 passages and like 12 listening passages,others had 5 extremely hard reading passages and 6 listening passages.
The difficulty of reading passages are not compared with the listening.
It is not fair that i have 5 reading passages even if i have 6 listening passages.
Having 5 reading passages in the begining of the test for 100 minutes just exhaust and disappoint the candidate ..

knok · 06-19-2007, 03:27 AM

We should be able to send the petition by this Wednesday. We are putting the paragraph about the difference of amount of passages in the TOEFL iBT draft. If anyone can help, I will appreciate it. I do not feel good today. Or do you think that we should skip this part and go ahead and send it tomorrow?

Please stay tune.

Knok

ylynnly · 06-19-2007, 04:20 AM

Hi Knok,
We still have many things to complain ETS.However, I think your drafts are good enough.

I still want to give my opinions about the issue you gave. In my opinion, I will write that paragraph as follows:

Leave out the survey parts in the test

The survey questions in reading and listenning parts should be stopped. The first reason is that they will make the test longer.It can affect to concentration of test takers not only within these parts but also in the next parts. Furthermore, test taker will be very stressful and tired because of sticking into computer very long time, therefore, the result of test cannot show their actual abilities.Finally, two years is very good period for survey. EST must have had good data for their evaluation the new test.

I am sorry for my poor English.This is what I concern.
Regards,
Lynn

knok · 06-19-2007, 04:27 AM

When is the survey part? I am sorry that I can't remember?

Knok

Oh92122 · 06-19-2007, 07:50 AM

I think we should add this topic in our letter.

6. Number of test questions and total time differences among test takers.

It is unfair that test takers may be required to perform different amounts of tasks and a different number of questions on the reading and listening section. Candidates may receive either 3 or 5 passages during the reading section and 6-13 passages of listening section. We think that everyone should get the same amount of questions. We were informed that ETS gave dummy questions which were not scored for some test takers. These dummy questions are probably for ETS's exam trial. This exhausts the test takers. This practice should not be allowed.

Test takers are exhausted after reading five passages for the reading section before doing the speaking section. Test takers are not allowed to go to the rest room during any sessions. It is impossible to go to the rest room during the reading because the reading is divided into 2-3 subsections.

1 reading passage ---20 minutes
2 reading passages-- 40 minutes
2 reading passages. ---40 minutes

Furthermore, average waiting time for registration process is about 1 hour. Occasionally test centers encounter technical or server problems which result in longer waiting time. Test takers might have to wait 2-3 hours to complete registration process. Then they have to complete the reading and listening section before they can take a break. We think that test takers should be allowed to take a break after they finish 60 minutes of the reading section or before they go on the listening section. We feel that these issues should not be taken lightly because they involve health-related problems such as urinary tract infection.

knok · 06-19-2007, 09:21 AM

Hi everyone,

Thanks Oh for your help.

I am trying to attach the files of samples of our letters to New Jersey Consumer Affairs, and NABP, but tonight for some reason, technical problem does not allow me to attach files. I will try again tomorrow.

The TOEFL iBT Complaint will be printed two or more copies to institutions such as NABP and International Admission Directors.

NABP petition will be sent to the FPGEC and Competency Assessment Director of NABP.

I will explain later about what we have to do. We should be able to send the letter by Wednesday morning.

Thank you very much for your contributions.

Best Regards,

Knok

06-18-2007, 02:00 PM	#101 (permalink)
takku Within my grasp! Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 128	Hey, I was wondering whether anyone listen to this and try to resolve it.. Any way we can pray and wait... _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ Waiting for Naplex Result,,,,

06-18-2007, 04:30 PM	#103 (permalink)
emac Eager! Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 64	Ready knok, I am ready to print. I read both final drafts and it seems good enough for me. You know that when it comes to a project like this you will always have the feeling that you could do better. But beleive me this is a good one. Perfect is nothing and the most important that we all, especially you, have put our best efforts to make it clear, easy to understand and explanatory enough, and we did it. Let's just set a date for everyone to have it mail it. Every single letter from us should be at the post offfice the same day, so they receive it in NABP the same day too. That's how is going to make a huge impact. 2nd, remember the checking list we talked about, so everyone knows what to do and where to send both letter. Thanks again, I am waiting for your green light to send it, emac

06-18-2007, 06:34 PM	#104 (permalink)
knok TestMagic Guru Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,100	What do you think? We were confused last night about the references. I was dizzy after looking back and forth. At first, I had the references ordered alphabetically. Then, I got the references which were ordered by which references were found first in the article. Finally, I ordered alphabetically in the TOEFL iBT complaint and which were found first in the NABP petition. I know that it is consistent. What do you suggest for this issue? Which one would you should? Please suggest. In addition, we have two more topics to add in the TOEFL iBT Complaint. First, the different number of passages on the reading and listening passages which each of us have to do on the TOEFL iBT can be an argument. We think that it is unfair. Everyone should get the same amount of questions. It seems that ETS just wants to worn us out by giving 5 passages for the reading section before doing the speaking section. Test takers are not allowed to go to the rest room in any sessions. It is impossible to go to the rest room during the reading because the reading was divided into 2-3 sessions. 1 reading passage ---20 minutes 2 reading passages-- 40 minutes 2 reading passages. ---40 minutes Can anyone give me the exact minutes we have for each session? Correct me if I am wrong. Thanks. I feel that there should be a break during the 100 minute session of the reading before we go on the reading session. In the TOEFL computer-based, it has 3 passages. We can use the time during the session of 55 minutes to go to the rest room. If we lose 5 minutes for the reading in Computer-based, it won't hurt. But if we lose 5 minutes in a small session in iBT (20 minutes each), we may be in trouble to get a high score. In iBT, you cannot sacrify minutes during small sessions in the reading. It is impossible to go to the rest room during the listening because we have to listen. Please help me do these additional issues. If anyone of us can help me write these two issues in a short paragraph, it would be great. If not, we may skip them all. I feel that these issues are related to health problems, which is a big concern. I am kind of exhausted. If no one writes about these issues, we may just skip them. Thanks. Knok _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ "I see so much testing in the world, and see how badly most of it is done. I also see the faith many people put in tests and test results, and the consequences for people when test results are used to make decisions about their lives. --Liz Hamp-Lyons (2002)"

06-19-2007, 03:27 AM	#106 (permalink)
knok TestMagic Guru Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,100	We should be able to send the petition by this Wednesday. We are putting the paragraph about the difference of amount of passages in the TOEFL iBT draft. If anyone can help, I will appreciate it. I do not feel good today. Or do you think that we should skip this part and go ahead and send it tomorrow? Please stay tune. Knok _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ "I see so much testing in the world, and see how badly most of it is done. I also see the faith many people put in tests and test results, and the consequences for people when test results are used to make decisions about their lives. --Liz Hamp-Lyons (2002)"

06-19-2007, 04:27 AM	#108 (permalink)
knok TestMagic Guru Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,100	When is the survey part? I am sorry that I can't remember? Knok _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ "I see so much testing in the world, and see how badly most of it is done. I also see the faith many people put in tests and test results, and the consequences for people when test results are used to make decisions about their lives. --Liz Hamp-Lyons (2002)"

06-18-2007, 03:11 PM	#102 (permalink)
ylynnly Eager! Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 39	I agree with Emac. The communication needs both Speaking and Listenning.Why NABP just focuses on speaking and set high standard while listenning is only on the average? What happend if pharmacists got wrong information from patients? It is unreasonable standard. Thank you very much for your great efforts. Lynn

06-18-2007, 07:45 PM	#105 (permalink)
selena Eager! Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 65	1 reading passage ---20 minutes 2 reading passages-- 40 minutes 2 reading passages. ---40 minutes That is right. In the same test center some test takers got 3 passages and like 12 listening passages,others had 5 extremely hard reading passages and 6 listening passages. The difficulty of reading passages are not compared with the listening. It is not fair that i have 5 reading passages even if i have 6 listening passages. Having 5 reading passages in the begining of the test for 100 minutes just exhaust and disappoint the candidate ..

06-19-2007, 04:20 AM	#107 (permalink)
ylynnly Eager! Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 39	Hi Knok, We still have many things to complain ETS.However, I think your drafts are good enough. I still want to give my opinions about the issue you gave. In my opinion, I will write that paragraph as follows: Leave out the survey parts in the test The survey questions in reading and listenning parts should be stopped. The first reason is that they will make the test longer.It can affect to concentration of test takers not only within these parts but also in the next parts. Furthermore, test taker will be very stressful and tired because of sticking into computer very long time, therefore, the result of test cannot show their actual abilities.Finally, two years is very good period for survey. EST must have had good data for their evaluation the new test. I am sorry for my poor English.This is what I concern. Regards, Lynn

06-19-2007, 07:50 AM	#109 (permalink)
Oh92122 Trying to make mom and pop proud Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4	I think we should add this topic in our letter. 6. Number of test questions and total time differences among test takers. It is unfair that test takers may be required to perform different amounts of tasks and a different number of questions on the reading and listening section. Candidates may receive either 3 or 5 passages during the reading section and 6-13 passages of listening section. We think that everyone should get the same amount of questions. We were informed that ETS gave dummy questions which were not scored for some test takers. These dummy questions are probably for ETS's exam trial. This exhausts the test takers. This practice should not be allowed. Test takers are exhausted after reading five passages for the reading section before doing the speaking section. Test takers are not allowed to go to the rest room during any sessions. It is impossible to go to the rest room during the reading because the reading is divided into 2-3 subsections. 1 reading passage ---20 minutes 2 reading passages-- 40 minutes 2 reading passages. ---40 minutes Furthermore, average waiting time for registration process is about 1 hour. Occasionally test centers encounter technical or server problems which result in longer waiting time. Test takers might have to wait 2-3 hours to complete registration process. Then they have to complete the reading and listening section before they can take a break. We think that test takers should be allowed to take a break after they finish 60 minutes of the reading section or before they go on the listening section. We feel that these issues should not be taken lightly because they involve health-related problems such as urinary tract infection.

06-19-2007, 09:21 AM	#110 (permalink)
knok TestMagic Guru Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,100	Final Drafts Hi everyone, Thanks Oh for your help. I am trying to attach the files of samples of our letters to New Jersey Consumer Affairs, and NABP, but tonight for some reason, technical problem does not allow me to attach files. I will try again tomorrow. The TOEFL iBT Complaint will be printed two or more copies to institutions such as NABP and International Admission Directors. NABP petition will be sent to the FPGEC and Competency Assessment Director of NABP. I will explain later about what we have to do. We should be able to send the letter by Wednesday morning. Thank you very much for your contributions. Best Regards, Knok _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ "I see so much testing in the world, and see how badly most of it is done. I also see the faith many people put in tests and test results, and the consequences for people when test results are used to make decisions about their lives. --Liz Hamp-Lyons (2002)"

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