Let's get together to send the TOEFL iBT complaint to ETS and NABP

[knok]

Originally Posted by emac

Hey knok,
two more inputs for NABP
- They should set an overall score min. of 90 which is 75% of the Test.

Emac,

Thanks for your input.

What does 75% mean? Is it calculated from a raw score? Or is it a percentile rank?

I talked about the percentile rank to the academic manager. He told me that ETS may argue that this test is a criterion exam. It means that it is graded by ETS standard. I really think that ETS uses the statistic method to set the score because it uses the score rubric. Therefore, ETS may set 86 percentile or 96 percentile for those who receive a score of 26. It is unfortunate that ETS uses it monopolistic power to keep it secret for everything. Even though it discloses the figures, it is done by ETS.

It is ridiculous that all institutions trust ETS. "We operate the exam, we do our own research, we audit ourselves. Who cares? Foreigners have no voice. They are going to use us anyway."

Originally Posted by emac

Hey knok,
- If they keep separating the score by section then they have to reduce the score of the Speaking section to 23 or 24 which is considered a good level of language proficiency by ETS. Why do they accept intermediate scores of 18 in Listening and 21 in Reading, but not in the Speaking and Writting. What's the difference? It does not make sense.
keep up with the good work, thanks

I agree with every point you made since your first post. How can we convince NABP?

When you say, a good level of proficiency by ETS, where is the quote? I need to put it in the letter. If we can find an evidence literally, it will make our letter stronger.

Everyone,

If you have any good information, please do not hesitate to post it here. We need to end the monopoly.

If you look at the ETS official guide, I am really suspicious about the individual evaluation it gives for each individual. When it says, "this examinee receives a high level score", does it mean a score of 3 or 4? When it says, this examinee receives a mid level score, does it mean a score fo 2? Why doesn't it give 2, 3 or 4 as it gives us in a useless score evaluation sheet that we pay $150?

Thank you very much.

Two heads are better than one. The more heads, the better.

Best Regards,

Knok

[knok]

Please take your time to think about the argument we will make to convince NABP. It is your decision. We need to make our voices heard.

[emac]

Knok go to page 350 of The Official Guide to The New TOEFL ibt. In the speaking score comparision you can read that the minimun acceptable is 23.

How to convince NABP? Well there is nothing stronger that the huge number of Foreign Pharmacist that has already passed the FPGEE and are being prevented from practice their professions just because of this TOEFL ibt. It means that something is wrong with this test and then they have to re-think their language requirements. Otherwise we keep telling every lawmaker, every civil rights organization and everybody else that can put pressure on them.

And 90 is 75% of the maximum score of 120, in any methologic method to be graded more than 75% of the total score is enough to pass an exam. Why not here?

[Rammy]

Hi Knok and friends,

I think all of you know the scoring criteria of ETS for TOEFL iBT speaking, however I am posting the scoring method below.

4 is the high level score according to ETS. To score 26 in TOEFL iBT speaking test takers should get 20/24 for 6 questions each of highest score 4(4*6=24), which is very high for any standards. One more point in the rubrics of ETS test takers won't get score of 25, they may get either 24 or 26.

Here is the tricky part, ETS has set score of 26 in speaking section as good communication skills and NABP believes this.

To get scores of 26, test takers should get high level score(4) in two questions and fair level scores(3) in remaining 4 questions, which makes total score 20/24, 20/6=3.3 that equivalent to 26/30

This is the rating method of ETS

4+3=3.5(GOOD) 4+3=3.5(GOOD) 4+3=3.5(GOOD) TOTAL 21/24 = 3.5 = 27/30

4+3 = 3.5 (GOOD) 4+3=3.5(GOOD) 3+3(FAIR) TOTAL 20/24 = 3.3 = 26/30

4+3 = 3.5(GOOD) 3+3=3(FAIR) 3+3(FAIR) TOTAL 19/24 = 3.1 = 24/30

3+3 = 3 (FAIR) 3+3=3(FAIR) 3+3(FAIR) TOTAL 18/24 = 3.0 = 23/30

Here is the link from ETS website that reports last year scores and percentiles for score of 24 in speaking

TOEFL® Test and Score Data Summary for TOEFL Internet-Based Test: September 2005-December 2006 Test Data
http://www.ets.org/Media/Research/pd...M-0506-iBT.pdf

I remember an ESL teacher who attends ETS workshops and member of ETS training telling me that 26 in TOEFL iBT is equivalent to 55 in TSE, but ETS differes its opinion. But how can make NABP believe that.

Hope this will help.

Rammy

-

[knok]

Hi Rammy,

Thank you for the link. It is very informative. I suggest everyone print it out immediately and send it to the BBB, U.S. Commission, and NABP.

I remember that, 2 years ago, I posted the link about the percentile rank on the study group. The percentile rank of a score of 26 is 97 percentile. 2 weeks later, ETS updated or changed the data on the link to 86 percentile. The HTML format can be updated easily, unlike printed material.

I will print it out for at least 4 copies.

It is ridiculous that if you look at the average percentile rank of the United State, it is equal to 22, U.K.=25.

Two years ago, before NABP has taken the 26 figure, ETS reported that a score of 26 = 50 on TSE. I cannot find that link anymore.

The percentile of undergraduate level of a score of 26 = 86, for other student = 89, and for graduate student = 81.

[knok]

Score data and percentile ranks- TOEFL iBT by ETS

Speaking section, page 9-10:

One more point I want to add is:

Please read page 9. The mean score of the country that English is a primary language is 23.

On page 10, the mean score of the United State is 22.

The mean score of:

India = 23, Austria = 25.

There are only 2 countries that have the mean score of 26. Those are South Africa and Denmark.

You can see that not a single country has a mean score over 26. Does this data tell you something?

Something is really going wrong with the format of the test. It seems to measure intelligibility more than language ability.

If our letter petition does not change anything, I am ready to march to Chicago. Who is going with me?

Thank you and good luck.

Knok

[emac]

Rammy,
Great search, thanks a lot. I am sending this to Florida Board of Pharmacy.

Knok,
To start a project is the 50% of the project itself, so please send the complaints to ETS and NABP and every other organization suggested to get it started. If it doesn't work, you can count on me to march together. We need everyone of us in!!! Thanks.

[knok]

Actually, I finished the first draft of the petition a few days ago but I am having my friends, teachers, and tutors edit it before I posted it here. The academic manager is on vacation this week so I can't do anything. I think that by next week, we can see the petition. I want it to be easy to read. The final draft of the TOEFL Complaint should be finished together. The academic manager who sends many teachers to train with ETS knows a lot of what is strong or weak. I think that it is better to send a good complaint.

Please hold on. Or if anyone can get a good letter before me, please post it here. Thanks. I don't want to send unprofessional petition. I need it to be good and strong.

We have to choose the battle.

Knok

[knok]

Rammy and others,

As we did before, we will send the TOEFL Complaint and NABP petition seperately but at the same week.

TOEFL iBT Complaint will be sent to ETS, the BBB, U.S. Commission, and enclosed with the NABP petition. I have about 3-4 pages of NABP petition. I want to shorten it up to about 2-3 pages. My teachers told me to choose the battle. The main problem is the really high requirement of the speaking part. I wrote everything as you guys suggested but my teachers told me that after I raised too many points to NABP, the important part (Speaking) was diluted.

We need to focus on reducing the requirement to 20 and request NABP to have alternative exams, not the only monopoly and abusive organization we must use it now. Please understand that when we ask someone to do something for us, we cannot rush him/her. I hope that by the end of next week, we should get the final drafts for boths of them.

About the Comprehensive Speaking test that MD board requires, I do not have much information. I saw only the first page of the link and nothing else. We need to have more details. The link at the end of the page is not working. If anyone has more detailed information, please let me know. I do not want to put the thought but cannot answer the question thoroughly. Unlike IELTS, my friends took it and I can get every detail from her.

Best Regards,

Knok

[selena]

What are the main requests in the draft?
1. Reduce the speaking score to 20 or 21.
2. The overall acceptable score is > 90
3. In case They grant one of those two requests, they consider the passed tests scores valid.