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knok · 02-25-2008, 07:58 PM

Everyone,

Thanks for information.

We will do everything we have to do. It would be good if anyone who lives near CA pharmacy board brings the documents to discuss with Ms. Harris directly. It may take months for NABP to respond a letter. I would suggest you to go by yourself. Don't worry. Nobody will hurt you because you want to talk.

We need a staff to work, though.

A member of our group called NABP last week but the president is not working at the office in IL. He works as an executive for CVS, and is located in Texas.

Anyone who is in Texas and wants to use your location to find out how to set an appointment with the president, we will be appreciated it.

I will keep you updated.

Guys, please send your email though PM, I will send you details of the documents.

Thanks.

Knok

knok · 02-29-2008, 08:11 PM

Any more ideas?

knok · 03-01-2008, 08:28 PM

Folks,

When you voted that you were going to travel to meet, how serious were you? I want to make sure that we have help for "changes".

khadija · 03-04-2008, 12:08 PM

I' am very serious about it.

divakar1979 · 03-04-2008, 04:32 PM

We really need to do something. I am also one of the unfortunate loser of TOFLE iBT, that I couldn't clear the test even after n times. I already sent a letter to my corresponding board, they denied to do any waiver on the test.

May be, it's a very good idea to contact NABP itself. I already voted for the proposal, that we just need to speak personally with someone big. I guess.

My support towards it all the time, let everyone set up a plan of action and time set so every one can raise their voice.

Hope this will find some help.

knok · 03-04-2008, 06:29 PM

We are planning. Where are you located? What are your time zones? I am in pacific time zone. Probably we can chat. Send me private message if you don't want to post here.

Right now, if anyone has time, please collect all the complaints from TOEFL speaking forum in MS word and send it to me. Then, I will edit and bring it to the Board and we all will discuss. We will do PowerPoint slides.

khadija · 03-04-2008, 06:53 PM

Hi Knok,
Time goes fast, and we really need to start putting things together by now in order to meet the PRESIDENT of NABP.

I am not sure if you have seen this threat in the speaking forum I am posting it for you to edit.
http://www.urch.com/forums/showthrea...ferrerid=24651 (Rescoring .. Aterrible Experience)

Tino-Argen · 03-05-2008, 04:14 PM

Hi Knok,

First of all, thank you so much for everything you are doing for us Foreign Pharmacists.
One good point of discussion would be for the NABP to accept 2 different score reports to finally meet their requirements . One with S:26 and other with R:L:W passed.
I contacted my attorney. He told me that this is called Rule Challenge, and that he needs a good number of people to start with this process.
I hope that something comes out from this ... SOOONNNN !!!!
Thank you again,

Martin.

The Pharmacist · 03-17-2008, 02:27 PM

Hi Guys

I really appreciate the efforts made by Knok and other people to get this problem solved.I fully support that this matter must be discussed with NABP authorities with all the documented evidence that ETS has put our futures in question .

I passed FPG in summer 2007. Since Aug 2007, I have taken TOEFL IBT 3 times. First time I lost by 2 marks in writing. Second and third times, I lost by 2 and 4 marks in speaking respectively. For first and second tests, I requested for rescoring but nothing changed. In my opinion, suggestion made by Tino-Argen regarding 2 score cards holds water and it should be insisted in meeting with NABP Authorities.

Hope this problem will be solved soon and we will be moving ahead to next step in this long way .
Good luck for all TOEL IBT victims including myself.

Thanks

knok · 03-17-2008, 06:40 PM

The solution might not be only asking NABP to accept scores in different tests.

Asking this option may not end the nightmare. The whole problem is because, I believe, ETS manipulates scores. ETS makes the speaking section too hard so that it can benefit from us. You can observe that those who received a score of 24 would pass, finally. It is like a score of 45 on the TSE. More than 15 test takers out of 100 actually receive a score higher than 24 but the quota is out so you receive a score of 24 instead of 26.

I believe that setting quota at 85% failures is the target. We should ask NABP to accept only 3 other sections, R, L and W + Speaking test operating in a real life interview only, NO tape recording or ditch the TOEFL iBT- Speaking, seriously. How come did a same test taker receive different scores in the same test? This practice questions the validity and integrity of ETS. It is called, “Benefits from its own mistakes, $60.” It is unbelievable that NABP saw this mistake and does nothing for years.

We all are highly educated. Some of us even have had higher degrees from American Universities but have been struggling with this test. This should raise an issue about the format and validity of this exam.

If we do nothing, nothing will happen. Nobody will do anything.

One of my friends received 20 on speaking and 22 on writing but received less than 10 on reading and listening. She argues that it is impossible that she received good scores on writing and speaking but failed the reading and listening. If she could not understand, she could not receive such high scores on the other two sections. Something really goes wrong with data transmission on this somewhat new TOEFL Internet based test.

She called ETS right away. She was put on hold, and then, the customer service told her that she did not do the reading and listening sections. She was shocked and argued back, “I did.” A few minutes later, the customer service representative said, “Oh! There is nothing wrong with the test scoring process. Your reading and listening scores are correct.”

Do you think that we all should have alternatives for the English test? If there is no good tests for us to take, NABP should skip this language test. The certificate is called FPGEC certificate. NABP should measure only FPGEE and leave the language test for organizations and state boards to decide which language tests they want to use or let employers decide themselves.

The point is that if you are required to take an English test that is not valid, what is the reason to pass it?

Another point is that there are many people who live in America but do not speak English. Where is the safety concern for those areas?

English is not an official language of the USA. It is kind of bias to require us to pass an English test. To be fair, people in FL, CA, TX in some areas should be required to take Spanish. What about that? We are living in a multicultural environment. NABP should let employers to decide which languages are required in those areas. If you require pharmacists to pass an English test so that they can practice in areas where Spanish or French are used, what that English test is for? Does this indicate those pharmacists can communicate in communitieswell enough?

In my opinion, NABP should take advantages of diverse backgrounds of foreign pharmacists. Would bilingual pharmacists work better in this multicultural environment? I believe so.

Whoever would like to sacrifice at your own expenses and meet with NABP, please drop me a private message. We are planning seriously. We are willing to meet where NABP wants us to meet, at NABP’s convenience, probably at TX or IL.

The cost of each TOEFL iBT is $150 plus traveling costs and accommodation (>$200). Assume that we pay $350 each.
If we take 10 TOEFL iBT,

$350 x 10 = $3,500

The cost of airplane tickets to TX or IL plus the accommodations should not be over the cost of the test multiple times. If we do not do anything, millions of dollars from us will waste in the process.

Nurses and doctors are not required to take TOEFL iBT only. Where is the safety concern for them? Are they working in the same healthcare system as us?

View Poll Results: Would you like to talk to NABP? (This poll is closed. Please vote in a new poll)
Yes, I would.	36	87.80%
No, I wouldn't.	5	12.20%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

02-25-2008, 07:58 PM	#11 (permalink)
knok TestMagic Guru Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,045	Everyone, Thanks for information. We will do everything we have to do. It would be good if anyone who lives near CA pharmacy board brings the documents to discuss with Ms. Harris directly. It may take months for NABP to respond a letter. I would suggest you to go by yourself. Don't worry. Nobody will hurt you because you want to talk. We need a staff to work, though. A member of our group called NABP last week but the president is not working at the office in IL. He works as an executive for CVS, and is located in Texas. Anyone who is in Texas and wants to use your location to find out how to set an appointment with the president, we will be appreciated it. I will keep you updated. Guys, please send your email though PM, I will send you details of the documents. Thanks. Knok _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ "Every reason that tells you that things will never change disappears." "I did what I had to do because it is the right thing to do."

02-29-2008, 08:11 PM	#12 (permalink)
knok TestMagic Guru Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,045	Any more ideas? _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ "Every reason that tells you that things will never change disappears." "I did what I had to do because it is the right thing to do."

03-01-2008, 08:28 PM	#13 (permalink)
knok TestMagic Guru Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,045	Folks, When you voted that you were going to travel to meet, how serious were you? I want to make sure that we have help for "changes". _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ "Every reason that tells you that things will never change disappears." "I did what I had to do because it is the right thing to do."

03-04-2008, 12:08 PM	#14 (permalink)
khadija TestMagic Guru-in-Training Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 727	I' am very serious about it. _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _

03-04-2008, 04:32 PM	#15 (permalink)
divakar1979 Trying to make mom and pop proud Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 8	We really need to do something. I am also one of the unfortunate loser of TOFLE iBT, that I couldn't clear the test even after n times. I already sent a letter to my corresponding board, they denied to do any waiver on the test. May be, it's a very good idea to contact NABP itself. I already voted for the proposal, that we just need to speak personally with someone big. I guess. My support towards it all the time, let everyone set up a plan of action and time set so every one can raise their voice. Hope this will find some help.

03-04-2008, 06:29 PM	#16 (permalink)
knok TestMagic Guru Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,045	We are planning. Where are you located? What are your time zones? I am in pacific time zone. Probably we can chat. Send me private message if you don't want to post here. Right now, if anyone has time, please collect all the complaints from TOEFL speaking forum in MS word and send it to me. Then, I will edit and bring it to the Board and we all will discuss. We will do PowerPoint slides. _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ "Every reason that tells you that things will never change disappears." "I did what I had to do because it is the right thing to do."

03-04-2008, 06:53 PM	#17 (permalink)
khadija TestMagic Guru-in-Training Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 727	Hi Knok, Time goes fast, and we really need to start putting things together by now in order to meet the PRESIDENT of NABP. I am not sure if you have seen this threat in the speaking forum I am posting it for you to edit. http://www.urch.com/forums/showthrea...ferrerid=24651 (Rescoring .. Aterrible Experience) _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _

03-05-2008, 04:14 PM	#18 (permalink)
Tino-Argen Almost there !!! Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2	Hi Knok, First of all, thank you so much for everything you are doing for us Foreign Pharmacists. One good point of discussion would be for the NABP to accept 2 different score reports to finally meet their requirements . One with S:26 and other with R:L:W passed. I contacted my attorney. He told me that this is called Rule Challenge, and that he needs a good number of people to start with this process. I hope that something comes out from this ... SOOONNNN !!!! Thank you again, Martin.

03-17-2008, 02:27 PM	#19 (permalink)
The Pharmacist Trying to make mom and pop proud Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3	Hi Guys I really appreciate the efforts made by Knok and other people to get this problem solved.I fully support that this matter must be discussed with NABP authorities with all the documented evidence that ETS has put our futures in question . I passed FPG in summer 2007. Since Aug 2007, I have taken TOEFL IBT 3 times. First time I lost by 2 marks in writing. Second and third times, I lost by 2 and 4 marks in speaking respectively. For first and second tests, I requested for rescoring but nothing changed. In my opinion, suggestion made by Tino-Argen regarding 2 score cards holds water and it should be insisted in meeting with NABP Authorities. Hope this problem will be solved soon and we will be moving ahead to next step in this long way . Good luck for all TOEL IBT victims including myself. Thanks

03-17-2008, 06:40 PM	#20 (permalink)
knok TestMagic Guru Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,045	The solution might not be only asking NABP to accept scores in different tests. Asking this option may not end the nightmare. The whole problem is because, I believe, ETS manipulates scores. ETS makes the speaking section too hard so that it can benefit from us. You can observe that those who received a score of 24 would pass, finally. It is like a score of 45 on the TSE. More than 15 test takers out of 100 actually receive a score higher than 24 but the quota is out so you receive a score of 24 instead of 26. I believe that setting quota at 85% failures is the target. We should ask NABP to accept only 3 other sections, R, L and W + Speaking test operating in a real life interview only, NO tape recording or ditch the TOEFL iBT- Speaking, seriously. How come did a same test taker receive different scores in the same test? This practice questions the validity and integrity of ETS. It is called, “Benefits from its own mistakes, $60.” It is unbelievable that NABP saw this mistake and does nothing for years. We all are highly educated. Some of us even have had higher degrees from American Universities but have been struggling with this test. This should raise an issue about the format and validity of this exam. If we do nothing, nothing will happen. Nobody will do anything. One of my friends received 20 on speaking and 22 on writing but received less than 10 on reading and listening. She argues that it is impossible that she received good scores on writing and speaking but failed the reading and listening. If she could not understand, she could not receive such high scores on the other two sections. Something really goes wrong with data transmission on this somewhat new TOEFL Internet based test. She called ETS right away. She was put on hold, and then, the customer service told her that she did not do the reading and listening sections. She was shocked and argued back, “I did.” A few minutes later, the customer service representative said, “Oh! There is nothing wrong with the test scoring process. Your reading and listening scores are correct.” Do you think that we all should have alternatives for the English test? If there is no good tests for us to take, NABP should skip this language test. The certificate is called FPGEC certificate. NABP should measure only FPGEE and leave the language test for organizations and state boards to decide which language tests they want to use or let employers decide themselves. The point is that if you are required to take an English test that is not valid, what is the reason to pass it? Another point is that there are many people who live in America but do not speak English. Where is the safety concern for those areas? English is not an official language of the USA. It is kind of bias to require us to pass an English test. To be fair, people in FL, CA, TX in some areas should be required to take Spanish. What about that? We are living in a multicultural environment. NABP should let employers to decide which languages are required in those areas. If you require pharmacists to pass an English test so that they can practice in areas where Spanish or French are used, what that English test is for? Does this indicate those pharmacists can communicate in communitieswell enough? In my opinion, NABP should take advantages of diverse backgrounds of foreign pharmacists. Would bilingual pharmacists work better in this multicultural environment? I believe so. Whoever would like to sacrifice at your own expenses and meet with NABP, please drop me a private message. We are planning seriously. We are willing to meet where NABP wants us to meet, at NABP’s convenience, probably at TX or IL. The cost of each TOEFL iBT is $150 plus traveling costs and accommodation (>$200). Assume that we pay $350 each. If we take 10 TOEFL iBT, $350 x 10 = $3,500 The cost of airplane tickets to TX or IL plus the accommodations should not be over the cost of the test multiple times. If we do not do anything, millions of dollars from us will waste in the process. Nurses and doctors are not required to take TOEFL iBT only. Where is the safety concern for them? Are they working in the same healthcare system as us? _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ "Every reason that tells you that things will never change disappears." "I did what I had to do because it is the right thing to do." Last edited by knok : 03-17-2008 at 09:24 PM.

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