Fantiki Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 After final ding-dings this week, it seems that these will be my best offers. What do you think? Columbia seems to be ahead in terms of research while LBS has a reputation of a "caring" program. I also think that the recent placements from Columbia are slightly better, although there is a lot of noise. Coursework at Columbia seems to be more solid, but at the same time they have 3 prelims at the end of first year and 1 prelim at the end of second year, so you may well drop off. I was able to visit LBS during the interview day but it is somehow difficult to get unbiased information about Columbia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figuringout Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I have zilch idea about Finance - but just wanted to say congratulations! I am in a similar position as yours (fretting over choosing between great programs) and we often forget that the age old cliche - 'you cant go wrong' is often true! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capital_structure Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Columbia no questions asked. Not only will you get an excellent Ivy league education, your placement choices will be amazing. You have choice of going into industry and work straight on Wall Street or academia anywhere since you're a ivy league finance PhD. LBS does not compare to Columbia. LBS is amazing, but Columbia come on. The campus is amazing also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doorsxp Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 LBS is the better choice. Columbia's courses & exam requirements are highly structured = inflexible, part of the reason for their high attrition rates. LBS has a more cooperative culture than average while Columbia has a more competitive culture. Much better chance that LBS faculty take an interest in progress & success of students. Unlike many "top" programs, LBS' PhD program is still (at least partially) in the business of developing students. This factor will matter a lot when things get tough, on bad days, and during periods of burn-out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capital_structure Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 You made it to Columbia PhD, so you're obviously smart so I believe you can handle the exams and the competitive culture. Columbia opens up Wall Street for you and basically every university in the world. LBS opens up London for you and schools in UK and maybe Europe. If you have significant publications in top journals then maybe top US schools also. It really depends on what you want to do, and where and align you program with that accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantiki Posted March 18, 2010 Author Share Posted March 18, 2010 Thanks for feedback. figuringout, cons on your accpets! My goal is to be a professor at a top European school, in that sense I am not that concerned about Wall Street perspectives. I know that faculty probably cares more about students in LBS, but somehow their recent placements seem to be weaker, and a couple of faculty members are leaving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capital_structure Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 If you want to be a prof at a top school then goto a top school. My dad is a accounting prof at a top school in Canada. He was on the new assistant prof selection committee and he said one of the first things they see is where the person did their PhD. They sort it through top school to low schools first and then publications. This is the trend followed at all North american schools. I do not know about Europe. I would assume it is similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulgor Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Congrats for the offers - good job! In your case, I would rather go to Columbia. First of all (as you also mentioned) the faculty in Columbia is amazing, whereas in LBS some good people are leaving - lately LBS is slowly moving down the ladder. Secondly, the placement report at Columbia is way much better. Even more as Capital Structure says the job candidates are ranked according the schools they have finished. The committees also in Europe rank the new candidates by schools otherwise it is too time consuming to go through everyone. Thirdly, look at the publications in top journals - Columbia stands quite a bit in front of LBS. These factors will be those who will determine your success in academia afterwards. Although LBS is excellent, Columbia will open you much bigger market - which obviously means you will also be more in demand in Europe. Good luck and let us know what you chose! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantiki Posted March 19, 2010 Author Share Posted March 19, 2010 Thanks for useful comments, I will have some tough time thinking about the decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capital_structure Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Yeah. Take your time and think about it hard. Call the schools too and see what they would say to pursue you into joining them. For My Masters I called the director and said.. "i am choosing between this and this and this...can you help me out.." and he obviously talked about his school quite a bit in comparison, and then I called the other programs and just kind of built a matrix and chose accordingly. It would be a bit different for PhD definitely, but should help. Let us know what you pick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadiran Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 Really tough choice... I think LBS has amazing placement record 4 or 5 years ago, but right now it is a little bit down turn, anyway, job market candidate from LBS still very hot and enjoy a reputation of high quality. I don't know too much about Columbia, but know their placement record is not so impressive, and i heard many people told me that it is caused by its lower quality of phd student(no offense, just copy other's words, and i've no idea about that). If the placement record is not due to the policy or the faculty, then i think Columbia is a very good place to go:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantiki Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 Hi, Hadiran! Nice to see you again. Thanks for the advice. How are your things going? Yes, it is definitely a tough choce. LBS is a very attractive school as they invest heavily into their students, but I am afraid that the placement trend is slightly downward. It is true that Columbia had no that impressive placement in the past, but the recent placement is very good (e.g. this year HBS and Marshall and last year Wharton and Marshall). Columbia professors said that the program was restructured in 2003-2005, but it is difficult to evaluate how large effect did this have. I am now communicating closely with professors in both schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootermcgavin7 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Even after your desire to place in Europe, I would still take Columbia. However: Faculty in France and Germany have told me that they frequently don't take American PhDs seriously when they apply for jobs (unless the Phd is originally from Europe) because they can't see American students turning down the US salaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE570 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 I would also go with Columbia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantiki Posted March 23, 2010 Author Share Posted March 23, 2010 Yeah, my professors also said that European schools take US candidates less seriously, but the problem should be less severe if a candidate is a european himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmystewart Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Why isn't UBC still in the mix? Have you talked to the director there? I don't know much about the program and didn't think much of it before Mikhail Simutin went on the job market. I am not sure where he eventually placed, but I was really surprised to see UBC on our list of job market presenters with all of the Chicago and Wharton guys. That said, it is difficult to turn down NYC and Ivy league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantiki Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 Why isn't UBC still in the mix? It is, but it is a west-coast institution, and as a European I have slight preferences towards the east-coast. It is true that UBC is top 20 in terms of placement (e.g. during the last decade they placed to UCLA, CMU and Austin and every year they seem to place their best student into top 50, you can see their placement here: Sauder School of Business | Ph.D. - Alumni 2009). Also this year Simutin is going to Toronto and Boguth to ASU, which is a very strong placement (maybe a borderline Top 10 placement record given the market). UBC invests heavily in their students and also based on my communication the department in very warm internally. There is no doubt I would be happy at UBC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capital_structure Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 It is, but it is a west-coast institution, and as a European I have slight preferences towards the east-coast. It is true that UBC is top 20 in terms of placement (e.g. during the last decade they placed to UCLA, CMU and Austin and every year they seem to place their best student into top 50, you can see their placement here: Sauder School of Business | Ph.D. - Alumni 2009). Also this year Simutin is going to Toronto and Boguth to ASU, which is a very strong placement (maybe a borderline Top 10 placement record given the market). UBC invests heavily in their students and also based on my communication the department in very warm internally. There is no doubt I would be happy at UBC. UBC is good. But it doesn't compare to the top 10 or even top 20. It is not in the same league as Columbia or LBS. Seems like they have good placements. But many top 25-35 programs from US also have placements at top 20 schools. The power of top american universities is incomparable. Getting a assistant professor position with a good thesis/publications/recs is possible from any good school. It is surviving, that is the problem and only the top school PhD's make it to tenure. Top universities like to have the pedigree PhD's on their permanent faculty list and unfortunately UBC does not count in that. See how many top 10 schools have UBC PhD's as Associate/Full professors. Unfortunately not that many. Those are still dominated by the top schools. Anyways, have you picked your university yet? lol I am kinda anxious to know what you pick. haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootermcgavin7 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 UBC is good. But it doesn't compare to the top 10 or even top 20. It is not in the same league as Columbia or LBS. They might be in the same league as Columbia as far as academic placements. I seem to recall a faculty member there telling me they are a lot stronger placing in industry than academia. But I admit that I had a very late night and I might be mixing up Columbia and Cornell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capital_structure Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 They might be in the same league as Columbia as far as academic placements. I seem to recall a faculty member there telling me they are a lot stronger placing in industry than academia. But I admit that I had a very late night and I might be mixing up Columbia and Cornell. I am sorry I did not understand what you wrote. lol Did you say UBC has better industry placements than Columbia or LBS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootermcgavin7 Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 I am sorry I did not understand what you wrote. lol Did you say UBC has better industry placements than Columbia or LBS? No. I think Columbia places very well in industry, but struggles a bit in academia. UBC places well in academia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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