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cuppycup · 2009 October 18th, 06:49 AM

I just took my GMAT for the second time (my first score expired), and I didn't do as well as I hoped in Quant. My overall score of 730 is fine but I was 69th percentile in Q and 99th in V. There's a huge push for quant skills in marketing so I am concerned about my admission prospects. I am targeting quant for my letters of recommendation, and I'm graduating from my MBA program at Texas A&M with a 4.0. That coursework obviously includes statistics, accounting, finance and economics.

I have 10 years of IT work experience and have worked fulltime through grad school. I don't have any publications or noteworthy research experience. My focus will likely be New Media in a doctoral program so I can draw on my IT expertise.

I'd love to get into a top tier school like Columbia, Duke, Northwestern, UT Austin, or Booth. I wonder what chance I have with my quant score and how wide I should cast my net with applications. Your advice is appreciated.

possible_phd · 2009 October 18th, 07:19 AM

You're targeting quant marketing? I hate to say it, but there's no hope of a top tier admit with that score. My score was low at 48 Q, and I know for a fact that the only reason I got at least one of my admits was because one of my recommenders is respected, well-connected, and made the case for me behind the scenes. How do I know? Not only did he tell me, but my interviewer at said school told me! Of course, quant score matters less if you're going the CB route, but I can't imagine a 69% being competitive at any top program.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that's just how it goes. Study up and get yourself to the 80%+ range, and you'll be in much better shape. Of course, your letters will be the real deciding factor, in addition to your statement of purpose.

Good luck!

cuppycup · 2009 October 18th, 08:01 AM

That is what I was afraid of, possible_phd. I should have mentioned that I do plan to focus on CB. I wonder if my score will be good enough for a 2nd tier or solid state school. My letters of recommendation are from wonderful, well-regarded sources, but I think that is the norm for top tier.

I hate that I've always done very well in quant coursework and computer programming but struggled with simple algebra on the GMAT. It's almost impossible for me to study enough to merit a retake since I am wrapping up my MBA and working fulltime.

possible_phd · 2009 October 18th, 09:45 AM

My opinion is just that -- an opinion. You should, by all means, take a few shots at the elite schools, if you think other aspects of your application may compensate. However, you should also be realistic and focus more on the mid-range schools.

I have to say that I can empathize with you, though; my sub-90% quant score was especially frustrating, given my background in engineering. When my interviewer at the aforementioned school asked me about why my quant score was so low, I responded tongue-in-cheek, "I don't know what to say. Solving triangles in 30 seconds isn't a core competency!" He laughed, and I got admitted.

So in the end, be optimistic, but also be realistic. Even in CB, you'll need to learn stats and will probably have to take some quant courses and seminars.

clovus · 2009 October 18th, 03:44 PM

A top school might be hard, but with CB, I think it is at least worth taking a chance. I would suggest to target some top schools that are a perfect fit for your research interests. Failing that, I think you have a good chance at some upper level state schools.

taxPhD · 2009 October 18th, 05:14 PM

Since you are at Texas A&M right now, you might take some time to go talk to some of their marketing folks about PhD programs.

Texas A&M is a solid marketing PhD program, and the folks there could give you some insight into whether you might be competitive at a school like TAMU and its peer group.

You can still get some really nice placements out of a school like Texas A&M's PhD program.

cuppycup · 2009 October 18th, 05:40 PM

Thanks, all.

taxPhD, I've been going that route and feel good about the opportunities here. I have tremendous respect for the faculty and research here. I have a great rapport with the PhD decision makers here, but I also don't want to put all of my eggs in one basket.

I posted on this forum to learn more about schools where I am truly just another application. I am trying to create a strategy for applying, and it seems like my best shot is with the middle of the pack. I will still reach out to some dream schools with the understanding that I'm not likely to be accepted.

clovus · 2009 October 18th, 07:57 PM

Cuppycup, to be fair, I think you can probably do better than the middle of the pack. your Q score is just one aspect of your profile, which otherwise seems to be pretty good. I'd say top 35 is pretty likely for you. Middle of the pack (I think) is closer to 40-70 in the rankings.

possible_phd · 2009 October 18th, 09:28 PM

I hate to be contrary, but I'd say top 35 is not very likely. Why would he have a shot at a top 35 when there are probably only ~50 CB admits total for all 35 of those schools (assuming 3 admits/year on average, 50% being CB)? Most of them will have perfect CVs, transcripts, scores, and maybe even research experience/papers! You don't even know his undergrad GPA or what his interests are, and you're somehow predicting a top admit? Come now. It's one thing to be encouraging, but it's more helpful to be realistic.

As someone who went through the ringer last year, I can tell you that as much as we wish it didn't, GMAT matters -- especially the quant portion! If applying to top schools were costless, I'd say go all out; but it takes a long time and a lot of money to apply, so you would be better off being strategic.

Better yet, solve those triangles and get to 80%+! 730 is perfectly acceptable, but 69% Q is probably going to hurt you, especially since it doesn't seem like anything else in your profile is especially fantastic to compensate. You're good, but that's not good enough to land in a top 10. If you can somehow get some research experience in or land some letters from some very well-connected profs, you will be in MUCH better shape. But like I said, buy a few lotto tickets and apply for a few top programs. You never know!

clovus · 2009 October 18th, 09:57 PM

Well, perhaps the "better half" of the middle of the road than. This is only my perception, but I think most profs understand what the GMAT does and does not mean. I personally think most "GMAT like tests" tell you very little about the test taker. Will a Q50 always be a better student and prof than a Q44, I doubt it, there are so many other factors. That said, In the very top schools, anything can kill your application, even triangles.

At the end of the day, schools want students that they can work with, and that are likely to publish well. If you can prove that to them, I think being able to solve mixture problems in 1 min with just a marker becomes less important. Granted, I would send about 25% of my applications to top programs if I was you, and the rest to the better half of the "middle of the road".

2009 October 18th, 06:49 AM	#1 (permalink)
cuppycup I JUST got here. Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5	Profile Evaluation: PhD in Marketing I just took my GMAT for the second time (my first score expired), and I didn't do as well as I hoped in Quant. My overall score of 730 is fine but I was 69th percentile in Q and 99th in V. There's a huge push for quant skills in marketing so I am concerned about my admission prospects. I am targeting quant for my letters of recommendation, and I'm graduating from my MBA program at Texas A&M with a 4.0. That coursework obviously includes statistics, accounting, finance and economics. I have 10 years of IT work experience and have worked fulltime through grad school. I don't have any publications or noteworthy research experience. My focus will likely be New Media in a doctoral program so I can draw on my IT expertise. I'd love to get into a top tier school like Columbia, Duke, Northwestern, UT Austin, or Booth. I wonder what chance I have with my quant score and how wide I should cast my net with applications. Your advice is appreciated.

2009 October 18th, 07:19 AM	#2 (permalink)
possible_phd Can't believe it Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 741	You're targeting quant marketing? I hate to say it, but there's no hope of a top tier admit with that score. My score was low at 48 Q, and I know for a fact that the only reason I got at least one of my admits was because one of my recommenders is respected, well-connected, and made the case for me behind the scenes. How do I know? Not only did he tell me, but my interviewer at said school told me! Of course, quant score matters less if you're going the CB route, but I can't imagine a 69% being competitive at any top program. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that's just how it goes. Study up and get yourself to the 80%+ range, and you'll be in much better shape. Of course, your letters will be the real deciding factor, in addition to your statement of purpose. Good luck! _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _

2009 October 18th, 09:45 AM	#4 (permalink)
possible_phd Can't believe it Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 741	My opinion is just that -- an opinion. You should, by all means, take a few shots at the elite schools, if you think other aspects of your application may compensate. However, you should also be realistic and focus more on the mid-range schools. I have to say that I can empathize with you, though; my sub-90% quant score was especially frustrating, given my background in engineering. When my interviewer at the aforementioned school asked me about why my quant score was so low, I responded tongue-in-cheek, "I don't know what to say. Solving triangles in 30 seconds isn't a core competency!" He laughed, and I got admitted. So in the end, be optimistic, but also be realistic. Even in CB, you'll need to learn stats and will probably have to take some quant courses and seminars. _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _

2009 October 18th, 09:28 PM	#9 (permalink)
possible_phd Can't believe it Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 741	I hate to be contrary, but I'd say top 35 is not very likely. Why would he have a shot at a top 35 when there are probably only ~50 CB admits total for all 35 of those schools (assuming 3 admits/year on average, 50% being CB)? Most of them will have perfect CVs, transcripts, scores, and maybe even research experience/papers! You don't even know his undergrad GPA or what his interests are, and you're somehow predicting a top admit? Come now. It's one thing to be encouraging, but it's more helpful to be realistic. As someone who went through the ringer last year, I can tell you that as much as we wish it didn't, GMAT matters -- especially the quant portion! If applying to top schools were costless, I'd say go all out; but it takes a long time and a lot of money to apply, so you would be better off being strategic. Better yet, solve those triangles and get to 80%+! 730 is perfectly acceptable, but 69% Q is probably going to hurt you, especially since it doesn't seem like anything else in your profile is especially fantastic to compensate. You're good, but that's not good enough to land in a top 10. If you can somehow get some research experience in or land some letters from some very well-connected profs, you will be in MUCH better shape. But like I said, buy a few lotto tickets and apply for a few top programs. You never know! _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _

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2009 October 18th, 08:01 AM	#3 (permalink)
cuppycup I JUST got here. Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5	That is what I was afraid of, possible_phd. I should have mentioned that I do plan to focus on CB. I wonder if my score will be good enough for a 2nd tier or solid state school. My letters of recommendation are from wonderful, well-regarded sources, but I think that is the norm for top tier. I hate that I've always done very well in quant coursework and computer programming but struggled with simple algebra on the GMAT. It's almost impossible for me to study enough to merit a retake since I am wrapping up my MBA and working fulltime.

2009 October 18th, 03:44 PM	#5 (permalink)
clovus I JUST got here. Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 21	A top school might be hard, but with CB, I think it is at least worth taking a chance. I would suggest to target some top schools that are a perfect fit for your research interests. Failing that, I think you have a good chance at some upper level state schools.

2009 October 18th, 05:14 PM	#6 (permalink)
taxPhD Eager! Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 91	Since you are at Texas A&M right now, you might take some time to go talk to some of their marketing folks about PhD programs. Texas A&M is a solid marketing PhD program, and the folks there could give you some insight into whether you might be competitive at a school like TAMU and its peer group. You can still get some really nice placements out of a school like Texas A&M's PhD program.

2009 October 18th, 05:40 PM	#7 (permalink)
cuppycup I JUST got here. Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5	Thanks, all. taxPhD, I've been going that route and feel good about the opportunities here. I have tremendous respect for the faculty and research here. I have a great rapport with the PhD decision makers here, but I also don't want to put all of my eggs in one basket. I posted on this forum to learn more about schools where I am truly just another application. I am trying to create a strategy for applying, and it seems like my best shot is with the middle of the pack. I will still reach out to some dream schools with the understanding that I'm not likely to be accepted.

2009 October 18th, 07:57 PM	#8 (permalink)
clovus I JUST got here. Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 21	Cuppycup, to be fair, I think you can probably do better than the middle of the pack. your Q score is just one aspect of your profile, which otherwise seems to be pretty good. I'd say top 35 is pretty likely for you. Middle of the pack (I think) is closer to 40-70 in the rankings.

2009 October 18th, 09:57 PM	#10 (permalink)
clovus I JUST got here. Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 21	Well, perhaps the "better half" of the middle of the road than. This is only my perception, but I think most profs understand what the GMAT does and does not mean. I personally think most "GMAT like tests" tell you very little about the test taker. Will a Q50 always be a better student and prof than a Q44, I doubt it, there are so many other factors. That said, In the very top schools, anything can kill your application, even triangles. At the end of the day, schools want students that they can work with, and that are likely to publish well. If you can prove that to them, I think being able to solve mixture problems in 1 min with just a marker becomes less important. Granted, I would send about 25% of my applications to top programs if I was you, and the rest to the better half of the "middle of the road".

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