TestMagic

SpottyRecord · 2009 October 23rd, 03:59 AM

My strongest interest is in social entrepreneurship, so I'm interested in management/strategic planning/entrepreneurship programs that are strong in social entrepreneurship.

Age: 33
GRE: 1560 (800V, 760Q)
GMAT: 750 (99th% V, ~85th% Q)
UG Degree: BS in Philosophy from state university
UG GPA: 3.1 cume (3.95 last 2 years, 3.94 in major)
Research Experience: none
Publications: none
Math: got an A in calc II, stopped there (worked through much of calc III on my own, though)

Letters: 1) Mgmt dept head at my UG state university who thinks I'm the smartest and most interesting student he's ever come across (he also serves as an advisor for my current business); 2) Moderately well-known philosopher who says I'm one of the top 3 most talented students he's come across in his dozen years; 3) Department head of my UG philosophy program

Red Flags: No prolonged work experience. Lots of F's from not finishing semesters (did this twice as an undergrad and twice as a grad student).

Plusses: Demonstrable ambition, initiative, and creativity out the ying yang. Started multiple businesses. Took a lot of independent study courses in school (even wrote an unpublished 275 page book for one). Spent much of the last 10 years obsessed with social entrepreneurship, explicitly trying to design and birth a business that would be able to generate $1 billion/yr in funding for philanthropic causes.

Relevant Work Experience: 1) Created/owned/operated my own restaurant & bar at age 21 with no money or experience; sold after 6 months for small profit. 2) Took over 4 failing franchise restaurants at age 23, re-designed all systems, did some unique cause-branding that helped local schools [still AP news stories about this online], set numerous sales records. 3) Launched a hybrid company 2 years ago that raises money for cancer research and other philanthropic causes [I donate a large % of my profits, plus I also organize fundraising events].

Grad School: 1) Joined a mediocre local MBA program in 2003 because I had to stay home and help my immediate family with medical issues. Received all A's first semester and all F's second semester because I withdrew early in the second semester without filing paperwork. Couldn't formally withdraw because I needed to keep my financial aid $ for family's food/medical bills. Withdrew because program was depressing and I didn't fit in at all. 2) When family's health improved, I applied and was accepted to a Top 5 philosophy grad program...then dropped out a month into first semester to launch my current company. Couldn't get myself to focus on philosophy because I was constantly thinking about business, in particular how to use business to do massive amounts of good for society. 3) Just started Nebraska's distance MBA program. Chose it because it was far and away the most inexpensive respectable online MBA program out there. Love it so far, but would prefer to switch to a PhD program.

Research Interests (* = possibly novel research areas):

Firm-oriented:
-Self-Propagating Businesses (designed to automatically reproduce and spread)*
-Strategic Planning/Design/HR
-Competitive Advantage
-Entrepreneurship

Society-oriented:
-Social Entrepreneurship
-Hybrid Organizations
-Strategic Philanthropy & Cause Branding
-Corporate Social Responsibility

Worker-oriented:
-Quiz-out Players* (these are A players who want to put in A+ effort for limited time, earn residual income, and retire/move on)
-Positive Organizational Scholarship
-Maximizing Organizational Citizenship Behavior
-Maximizing feelings of Employee Ownership
-Employee Empowerment, SDWT's, and Job Design
-Psychological Contracts, Equity Theory, Feelings of Entitlement

Fit:
-Fitting the concepts above to form uber-synergistic companies
-Fitting such companies with maximally receptive communities
-Fit between a company and the cultural milieu of its time

Programs I'm interested in:

Fantastically good fits:

Duke (seems like a magically perfect fit)
Harvard
Michigan
North Carolina

Other good fits:

Northwestern
Indiana
Cornell
Maryland
Louisville (entrepreneurship program)

Questions:

1) Are those programs out of my league? Am I being delusional?

2) If I need to aim at lower tier programs, where should I aim? (please cite some examples)

3) Would it be a waste to apply this year? Should I wait a year so that I can reel off a long string of A's and finish my MBA before entering a PhD program in fall 2011?

(I would also use that year to start independent research projects, help some business professors with their research projects, and hopefully co-author one or more papers. I would also read ~200 papers in my areas of interest to further pinpoint my strongest interests.)

BTW, just to be clear, I know a PhD isn't a "super MBA." I'm interested in being a professor at a major research institution and all that the position entails. I want to spend my time researching, creating new knowledge, and sharing that knowledge through papers, books, and teaching.

I'll retain ownership of my company, but I won't be involved in day-to-day activities. I'll simply be an adviser. It's become pretty clear to me that I'm better suited to be (and would be happier being) a business professor than a businessman, anyway.

.

alexis · 2009 October 23rd, 08:18 PM

Apart from those "F"s, I'd say you're a great candidate. It would probably be a good idea to address those grades in your statement of purpose or an additional statement, if the application allows it. It's a tricky balance, and I'm not sure if you should say the reason you didn't formally withdraw was because you needed the money...the adcom could doubt your honesty/etc. (I'm not passing judgment here, just thinking it's not a good thing to mention.) You could talk about how you needed to take care of your family and couldn't continue the courses. I'm not really sure how you could best approach it, but I would definitely address it, briefly--because it is a red flag.

You might want to consider other b-schools that don't get as many applicants but are still quality schools. I just suggested to someone else on this board to maybe applying to Temple; I know they have a bunch of professors who focus on entrepreneurship within the strategic management speciality. I'm sure there are other b-schools out there like this. Applying to schools like Harvard will probably be a long shot, so it's a good idea to broaden your search, which is sounds like you've already thought about. You have fantastic GRE and GMAT scores though, which will help--I'm super jealous of those scores!

Can't say whether you should wait to apply this year or not. Some programs might wonder, "hmm, if they can't finish 2 MBA programs, would they be able to commit to our PhD program?" I personally think it will strengthen your app if you at least plan on completeting your MBA before PhD programs (doesn't mean you have to graduate before applying, just that projected graduation would happen before you start the PhD program). And, like you said, you can get good grades in this next year and get some research experience, which will further strengthen your app.

That's just my 2 cents. Good luck!

haread · 2009 October 24th, 01:23 AM

Here's my two cents, you will never know unless you go for it. I am applying only to top 20 programs. I don't need to get into all of them, just one.

My GRE scores are solid, not as high as yours however, but GRE is just one factor.

Ideally you should start contacting professors at your target programs.

You're obviously talented. What I did not see however was a clear focus.

The fag (although there are good reasons) that there were some things you did not complete could be a red flag.

You need to ask yourself, "What do I really want to do," and have that come out strongly in your essays.

Broaden your scope of programs. Remember Harvard can have a PhD class full of 1600 GRE students. Trust me their is a reason they do not. It is not just about being smart, everyone at this level is smart.

Good luck!

Haread

haread · 2009 October 24th, 01:24 AM

I meant "fact" instead of "fag". I got fact and flag mixed up.

Sorry if anyone was offended.

Haread

SpottyRecord · 2009 October 24th, 07:32 AM

Thanks for your thoughts alexis and haread

My hope is that my uniqueness (from my hybrid philanthropy/business projects) would get me in at places like Harvard and Duke, where social entrepreneurship seems to be hot. My thinking is that they'd like to have an actual social entrepreneur join their program, since I'd be able to offer a perspective from the "been doing it" perspective to complement their "been researching it" perspective. I also think that since I've been doing it for years, that this will help me be a better researcher in the area. Hopefully the adcomms will agree

I was thinking I should maybe just apply to my top 5 dream choices this year. If I get in, I'll go for it now; if not, I'll cast a much wider net next year...while finishing my MBA in meantime, reading a ton of papers to clarify my specific interests, and getting my feet wet doing some research and (hopefully) co-authoring some publications.

Anybody else have any cents to add?

Anybody think I need to re-take the GRE/GMAT to improve my quant scores?

longshot · 2009 October 24th, 08:12 AM

Your scores are fine. If I was on an admissions committee, I'd be worried about you sticking with the program. You've walked away from a top 5 program before, so you'll need to go above and beyond to convince them of your dedication. There are too many excellent candidates out there to risk a valuable slot on someone they can't trust to stick it out.

SpottyRecord · 2009 October 24th, 08:30 AM

Agreed. Thanks for the input.

oldprogrammer · 2009 October 25th, 07:39 PM

Those F's are hugely negative. And the AdCom isn't going to care about special circumstances. They have so many well qualified and "unique" applicants that they don't need to take a chance on someone who might have another special circumstance arise.

Your GRE/GMAT scores are impressive in total, but your quantitative score is insufficient on both for any school in the Top 20. You need to hit the 90th percentile or higher. Business AdComs really don't care about the verbal score. Seems like you mentioned in another thread you took the GRE before and got a 800Q and a 620V? I would use those results.

Your math background is also insufficient for a business phd program. It varies from program to program, but a typical minimum you need is Calculus III, Linear Algebra, and math-based Stats (would have required Calc III as a prerequisite). This is because most programs will require PhD Microeconomics which draws on all of the above. In fact, if you apply to a top program like Harvard or Northwestern (or even Duke or Michigan) you will probably be competing against people who had proof-based math courses like Real Analysis and Topology.

Unfortunately, your work experience will count for little in the admissions process. PhD programs are in the business of producing research and people who can produce research. Your work experience may give you insight and inspiration to ask interesting questions, but you'll need to convince the AdComs you have the skills, mindset, and dedication to produce research. And you're not going to convince them of this solely in a statement of purpose. You need to show them through your grades, coursework, LORs, and research experience.

So definitely finish the MBA, definitely work on some research projects, and definitely work on replacing those philosophy LORs with relevant business LORs.

dusklife · 2009 October 25th, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldprogrammer

Those F's are hugely negative. And the AdCom isn't going to care about special circumstances. They have so many well qualified and "unique" applicants that they don't need to take a chance on someone who might have another special circumstance arise.

Your GRE/GMAT scores are impressive in total, but your quantitative score is insufficient on both for any school in the Top 20. You need to hit the 90th percentile or higher. Business AdComs really don't care about the verbal score. Seems like you mentioned in another thread you took the GRE before and got a 800Q and a 620V? I would use those results.

Your math background is also insufficient for a business phd program. It varies from program to program, but a typical minimum you need is Calculus III, Linear Algebra, and math-based Stats (would have required Calc III as a prerequisite). This is because most programs will require PhD Microeconomics which draws on all of the above. In fact, if you apply to a top program like Harvard or Northwestern (or even Duke or Michigan) you will probably be competing against people who had proof-based math courses like Real Analysis and Topology.

Unfortunately, your work experience will count for little in the admissions process. PhD programs are in the business of producing research and people who can produce research. Your work experience may give you insight and inspiration to ask interesting questions, but you'll need to convince the AdComs you have the skills, mindset, and dedication to produce research. And you're not going to convince them of this solely in a statement of purpose. You need to show them through your grades, coursework, LORs, and research experience.

So definitely finish the MBA, definitely work on some research projects, and definitely work on replacing those philosophy LORs with relevant business LORs.

Ehh, this guy is going for a PhD in social entrepreneurship, not finance/quant marketing/fin. accting/etc. While there are definitely weaknesses in the app, I don't think the ~85th% quant GMAT score and lack of real analysis, topology, and calc. 3 math stats would be the specific factors destroying his chances.

That said, from my perspective you (SpottyRecord) seem to be more like the kind of guy who was meant for the real business world; not academia. You're smart, seem very practical, but have consistently poor academic performance. Reminds me of a lot of successful real-world business icons. You say otherwise, and I do believe you, but your background paints a different story.

You'll need to explain why you are no longer interested in the practical-real world business side of things and prefer the theoretical groundings of the subject matter. You're even coming straight from an MBA, a very 'practical' degree. I know that, beyond the commitment issues already discussed, this would be my major concern if evaluating your application.

possible_phd · 2009 October 25th, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dusklife

I don't think the ~85th% quant GMAT score and lack of real analysis, topology, and calc. 3 math stats would be the specific factors destroying his chances.

I agree that the math and GMAT won't necessarily destroy his chances, because the adcoms will never look past the F's and drop outs! I'm all for being encouraging, but let's be real here. For all we know he may have the potential to be the next rock star researcher, but the spotty record does not attest to that. If you think he has a shot at the caliber programs he's mentioned above, I think "delusional" is probably the right word. I'm with oldprogrammer on this one.

2009 October 23rd, 03:59 AM	#1 (permalink)
SpottyRecord I JUST got here. Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 26	Am I delusional? What caliber of program should I target? My strongest interest is in social entrepreneurship, so I'm interested in management/strategic planning/entrepreneurship programs that are strong in social entrepreneurship. Age: 33 GRE: 1560 (800V, 760Q) GMAT: 750 (99th% V, ~85th% Q) UG Degree: BS in Philosophy from state university UG GPA: 3.1 cume (3.95 last 2 years, 3.94 in major) Research Experience: none Publications: none Math: got an A in calc II, stopped there (worked through much of calc III on my own, though) Letters: 1) Mgmt dept head at my UG state university who thinks I'm the smartest and most interesting student he's ever come across (he also serves as an advisor for my current business); 2) Moderately well-known philosopher who says I'm one of the top 3 most talented students he's come across in his dozen years; 3) Department head of my UG philosophy program Red Flags: No prolonged work experience. Lots of F's from not finishing semesters (did this twice as an undergrad and twice as a grad student). Plusses: Demonstrable ambition, initiative, and creativity out the ying yang. Started multiple businesses. Took a lot of independent study courses in school (even wrote an unpublished 275 page book for one). Spent much of the last 10 years obsessed with social entrepreneurship, explicitly trying to design and birth a business that would be able to generate $1 billion/yr in funding for philanthropic causes. Relevant Work Experience: 1) Created/owned/operated my own restaurant & bar at age 21 with no money or experience; sold after 6 months for small profit. 2) Took over 4 failing franchise restaurants at age 23, re-designed all systems, did some unique cause-branding that helped local schools [still AP news stories about this online], set numerous sales records. 3) Launched a hybrid company 2 years ago that raises money for cancer research and other philanthropic causes [I donate a large % of my profits, plus I also organize fundraising events]. Grad School: 1) Joined a mediocre local MBA program in 2003 because I had to stay home and help my immediate family with medical issues. Received all A's first semester and all F's second semester because I withdrew early in the second semester without filing paperwork. Couldn't formally withdraw because I needed to keep my financial aid $ for family's food/medical bills. Withdrew because program was depressing and I didn't fit in at all. 2) When family's health improved, I applied and was accepted to a Top 5 philosophy grad program...then dropped out a month into first semester to launch my current company. Couldn't get myself to focus on philosophy because I was constantly thinking about business, in particular how to use business to do massive amounts of good for society. 3) Just started Nebraska's distance MBA program. Chose it because it was far and away the most inexpensive respectable online MBA program out there. Love it so far, but would prefer to switch to a PhD program. *Research Interests ( = possibly novel research areas): Firm-oriented:** -Self-Propagating Businesses (designed to automatically reproduce and spread)* -Strategic Planning/Design/HR -Competitive Advantage -Entrepreneurship *Society-oriented:* -Social Entrepreneurship -Hybrid Organizations -Strategic Philanthropy & Cause Branding -Corporate Social Responsibility *Worker-oriented:* *-Quiz-out Players (these are A players who want to put in A+ effort for limited time, earn residual income, and retire/move on) -Positive Organizational Scholarship -Maximizing Organizational Citizenship Behavior -Maximizing feelings of Employee Ownership -Employee Empowerment, SDWT's, and Job Design -Psychological Contracts, Equity Theory, Feelings of Entitlement Fit: -Fitting the concepts above to form uber-synergistic companies -Fitting such companies with maximally receptive communities -Fit between a company and the cultural milieu of its time Programs I'm interested in:** Fantastically good fits: Duke (seems like a magically perfect fit) Harvard Michigan North Carolina Other good fits: Northwestern Indiana Cornell Maryland Louisville (entrepreneurship program) Questions: 1) Are those programs out of my league? Am I being delusional? 2) If I need to aim at lower tier programs, where should I aim? (please cite some examples) 3) Would it be a waste to apply this year? Should I wait a year so that I can reel off a long string of A's and finish my MBA before entering a PhD program in fall 2011? (I would also use that year to start independent research projects, help some business professors with their research projects, and hopefully co-author one or more papers. I would also read ~200 papers in my areas of interest to further pinpoint my strongest interests.) BTW, just to be clear, I know a PhD isn't a "super MBA." I'm interested in being a professor at a major research institution and all that the position entails. I want to spend my time researching, creating new knowledge, and sharing that knowledge through papers, books, and teaching. I'll retain ownership of my company, but I won't be involved in day-to-day activities. I'll simply be an adviser. It's become pretty clear to me that I'm better suited to be (and would be happier being) a business professor than a businessman, anyway. . Last edited by SpottyRecord : 2009 October 23rd at 05:40 AM. Reason: explaining asterisks

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

2009 October 23rd, 08:18 PM	#2 (permalink)
alexis I JUST got here. Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 22	Apart from those "F"s, I'd say you're a great candidate. It would probably be a good idea to address those grades in your statement of purpose or an additional statement, if the application allows it. It's a tricky balance, and I'm not sure if you should say the reason you didn't formally withdraw was because you needed the money...the adcom could doubt your honesty/etc. (I'm not passing judgment here, just thinking it's not a good thing to mention.) You could talk about how you needed to take care of your family and couldn't continue the courses. I'm not really sure how you could best approach it, but I would definitely address it, briefly--because it is a red flag. You might want to consider other b-schools that don't get as many applicants but are still quality schools. I just suggested to someone else on this board to maybe applying to Temple; I know they have a bunch of professors who focus on entrepreneurship within the strategic management speciality. I'm sure there are other b-schools out there like this. Applying to schools like Harvard will probably be a long shot, so it's a good idea to broaden your search, which is sounds like you've already thought about. You have fantastic GRE and GMAT scores though, which will help--I'm super jealous of those scores! Can't say whether you should wait to apply this year or not. Some programs might wonder, "hmm, if they can't finish 2 MBA programs, would they be able to commit to our PhD program?" I personally think it will strengthen your app if you at least plan on completeting your MBA before PhD programs (doesn't mean you have to graduate before applying, just that projected graduation would happen before you start the PhD program). And, like you said, you can get good grades in this next year and get some research experience, which will further strengthen your app. That's just my 2 cents. Good luck!

2009 October 24th, 01:23 AM	#3 (permalink)
haread I JUST got here. Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 29	Here's my two cents, you will never know unless you go for it. I am applying only to top 20 programs. I don't need to get into all of them, just one. My GRE scores are solid, not as high as yours however, but GRE is just one factor. Ideally you should start contacting professors at your target programs. You're obviously talented. What I did not see however was a clear focus. The fag (although there are good reasons) that there were some things you did not complete could be a red flag. You need to ask yourself, "What do I really want to do," and have that come out strongly in your essays. Broaden your scope of programs. Remember Harvard can have a PhD class full of 1600 GRE students. Trust me their is a reason they do not. It is not just about being smart, everyone at this level is smart. Good luck! Haread

2009 October 24th, 01:24 AM	#4 (permalink)
haread I JUST got here. Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 29	I meant "fact" instead of "fag". I got fact and flag mixed up. Sorry if anyone was offended. Haread

2009 October 24th, 07:32 AM	#5 (permalink)
SpottyRecord I JUST got here. Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 26	Thanks for your thoughts alexis and haread My hope is that my uniqueness (from my hybrid philanthropy/business projects) would get me in at places like Harvard and Duke, where social entrepreneurship seems to be hot. My thinking is that they'd like to have an actual social entrepreneur join their program, since I'd be able to offer a perspective from the "been doing it" perspective to complement their "been researching it" perspective. I also think that since I've been doing it for years, that this will help me be a better researcher in the area. Hopefully the adcomms will agree I was thinking I should maybe just apply to my top 5 dream choices this year. If I get in, I'll go for it now; if not, I'll cast a much wider net next year...while finishing my MBA in meantime, reading a ton of papers to clarify my specific interests, and getting my feet wet doing some research and (hopefully) co-authoring some publications. Anybody else have any cents to add? Anybody think I need to re-take the GRE/GMAT to improve my quant scores?

2009 October 24th, 08:12 AM	#6 (permalink)
longshot Within my grasp! Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 250	Your scores are fine. If I was on an admissions committee, I'd be worried about you sticking with the program. You've walked away from a top 5 program before, so you'll need to go above and beyond to convince them of your dedication. There are too many excellent candidates out there to risk a valuable slot on someone they can't trust to stick it out.

2009 October 24th, 08:30 AM	#7 (permalink)
SpottyRecord I JUST got here. Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 26	Agreed. Thanks for the input.

2009 October 25th, 07:39 PM	#8 (permalink)
oldprogrammer Within my grasp! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: USA Posts: 426	Those F's are hugely negative. And the AdCom isn't going to care about special circumstances. They have so many well qualified and "unique" applicants that they don't need to take a chance on someone who might have another special circumstance arise. Your GRE/GMAT scores are impressive in total, but your quantitative score is insufficient on both for any school in the Top 20. You need to hit the 90th percentile or higher. Business AdComs really don't care about the verbal score. Seems like you mentioned in another thread you took the GRE before and got a 800Q and a 620V? I would use those results. Your math background is also insufficient for a business phd program. It varies from program to program, but a typical minimum you need is Calculus III, Linear Algebra, and math-based Stats (would have required Calc III as a prerequisite). This is because most programs will require PhD Microeconomics which draws on all of the above. In fact, if you apply to a top program like Harvard or Northwestern (or even Duke or Michigan) you will probably be competing against people who had proof-based math courses like Real Analysis and Topology. Unfortunately, your work experience will count for little in the admissions process. PhD programs are in the business of producing research and people who can produce research. Your work experience may give you insight and inspiration to ask interesting questions, but you'll need to convince the AdComs you have the skills, mindset, and dedication to produce research. And you're not going to convince them of this solely in a statement of purpose. You need to show them through your grades, coursework, LORs, and research experience. So definitely finish the MBA, definitely work on some research projects, and definitely work on replacing those philosophy LORs with relevant business LORs.

TestMagic

Free GMAT, GRE, SAT Test, TOEFL practice tests