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lily9 · 2009 October 31st, 03:14 PM

Well, I took the GMAT last week and it basically took place on a construction site. The noise and vibrations from the electricians and workers working with hammers and drilling machines two meters from me disturbed me and I raised an incident at the end of the exam. Pearson Vue says that it was my fault if I was disturbed, since I didn't wear the earplugs that were offered to me (I find them awkward and uncomfortable) so I won't be able to retake it.

Anyway, I ended up with a 680 (V 42, Q 41 [beyond horrible], AWA 5.0). I had performed 720 or above on all practice tests, with very good quantitative and slightly lower verbal scores, so right now I simply don't know what to do. I am under the impression that with a 41 in quantitative I will never get considered anywhere. I feel that everything I've been dreaming of and working on for a year has been crushed by that score. (I will be graduating in June with a master's in business engineering - actually pretty heavy on quantitative stuff - so I really don't have the money to retake it.)

I am not really aiming at top schools - my dream uni is Bocconi, and I would have considered HEC Paris and Saïd but I feel they're completely out of my league with such a score. I am interested in quantitative CB. I did my undergrad and master's at [insert European country here]'s best business school, and I have a pretty good research experience, but unfortunately no publication yet.

Should I still apply this season, even with that score, or is it better to let the profs know I won't need the letters, get a job, retake the GMAT and apply next year?

dusklife · 2009 October 31st, 03:48 PM

I suggest you do whatever you can to get the money to retake it. Sounds like you'd easily pull it up. I had a similar quant fluke (even worse, actually) my first time around, and a month later I brought it up to within my normal practice test range.

I'm surprised Pearson wouldn't be more accomodating either...I'd think even with earplugs, construction drilling would remain distracting.

clovus · 2009 October 31st, 04:19 PM

I don't know much about the schools you are considering. Some school would still be happy to have you (though might be worried about the low Q if you are interested in math heavy CB) but they are not going to be "top" schools by any means. You are probably looking at the lower 50%, and perhaps even the lower 75% in terms of "rankings".

If that does not fit with the kind of school you would like to place at later in life, do what you can to retake the test. Fast. But you can probably get in somewhere.

lily9 · 2009 October 31st, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clovus

If that does not fit with the kind of school you would like to place at later in life, do what you can to retake the test. Fast. But you can probably get in somewhere.

I can't retake the test less than 31 after the first one. And afterwards (i.e., in December), I'll be in the middle of exams. So I'm basically stuck.

clovus · 2009 October 31st, 06:58 PM

Are there any lower level programs you were looking at or would be happy with? Also, have you already gotten a master degree? You could apply to a few of those as backups and try again next year.

phdhope · 2009 October 31st, 08:26 PM

I would say you could retake it if you wanted to. 680 and 720 aren't that different of scores. (Yes, they are different, but it is not like 680 is a sure reject and a 720 is a sure admit) I mean if you read the analysis that GMAT provides on their own test they admit that scores standard deviation by student is huge. They also admit that the GMAT explains less than 40% of performance in graduate school program. That being said, the test is only one of many factors that schools look at. I would also agree that depending on your school choice, that score could be more than competitive. So in short, I really wouldn't worry about that.

possible_phd · 2009 October 31st, 10:12 PM

It is true that a 680 and 720 are not all that different, statistically speaking. In fact, the GMAT folks, themselves, say that your score will generally be within +/- 30 points of your "true ability" (see p3 of this sample report). In other words, a 680 could be a 650 or a 710, for all we know. That being said, a 680 isn't really treated the same as a 710, because it just can't be. Professors are very busy people, and they need an efficient way to prioritize applications. One way to do that is a simple cutoff measure, and 700 seems to be the prediction of our lay theory regarding the admissions process. How true this is obviously varies from program to program, but I would bet it's not too bad, as far as rules of thumbs go.

So all else equal, could you get in with a 710 but not a 680, even though they may not be statistically different? Theoretically, sure; but realistically, who knows? And since you have now scored a 680 twice (you posted last season with a 680), it's probably fairly reflective of your ability. Taking it a third time might not be worthwhile and might even end up hurting you (e.g., what if you hit the 650 due to some fluke that day?). Of course, you may be right that external factors kept you from doing better. I took the GMAT three times, myself. The first time, I got a 700 in undergrad without studying, which was more than acceptable for when I applied to MBA programs a few years later. Once I realized I wanted a PhD while I was doing my MBA, however, I took it again and got a 710, even though I studied that time. I knew it had to be a fluke, due to other crap going on that day, so I took it again after my original score expired and got the 750 I was shooting for. The same might happen for you, but be aware of the potential risks and rewards. Unless you're fairly confident that you can bring it up to ~720+, it might not be worth the risk.

Just my

.

SpottyRecord · 2009 November 1st, 12:06 AM

Retake it. If you're anything like me, you'll never forgive yourself if you don't. I'm still irritated at my own "bombings."

I practiced for the GMAT by taking 6 Official Guide old tests and the 2 PowerPrep tests. I got six 800's, a 790, and a 780 (I think the PP's were 780 & 800). When I took the actual exam, I got 750. I can't blame anyone else but myself: I brainfarted on a few and really hurt myself by having the first Red Bull of my life right before I started. (My hands were so jittery from the caffeine, sugar, and stress that they were shaking almost too much to do any legible writing at all!)

When I took the GRE a short while later, I skipped the Red Bull. But then I'll be darned if I didn't screw up the quant anyway. I was trying so hard to get a 1600 that I just freaked out when I hit a problem I couldn't get. Spent 15 minutes on it cuz I didn't want to give up the dream. Never got it, and had to rush through the remaining dozen or so problems. Ended up with a 1560 (760Q). This was after scoring 800Q on practically every Official Guide/PP practice test I took.

Makes me angry all over again just thinking about it. What a couple of choke-jobs.

longshot · 2009 November 1st, 02:59 AM

Bocconi's application deadline for a PhD in business is Feb. 15. I imagine you'd have plenty of time during the semester break to study up and retake the exam.

kaatrin · 2009 November 1st, 03:51 AM

Lily9, I am sorry to hear about your exam. I live next to a construction site and think that you would probably hear the drilling and hammering through the earplugs anyway. Pearson's approach is ourageous.

When I was writing my test they gave me a wet board to take notes on and a pen that was not writing three times in a row, so I wasted good 10 to 15 minutes of my quant on getting them replaced. This made me really stressed out. Then the guy sitting next to me in a T-shirt (this was December) requested the heat to be turned up. It became ridicously hot in the exam room, so bad that I could hardly breathe (and I am a type of girl that is always cold). I had to drag the proctor from outside to see for himself how hot it got and to turn it down.

I got 720 somehow, when I saw the score, I could not believe my eyes!

I suggest that you take it again. Pearson is not right, but there is nothing you can do about it. What you can do, is try again, this is a small sacrifice in comparison with to what you are aiming to do (phd). Good luck!

2009 October 31st, 03:14 PM	#1 (permalink)
lily9 I JUST got here. Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 20	Incident during GMAT - Should I still apply? (Marketing PhD) Well, I took the GMAT last week and it basically took place on a construction site. The noise and vibrations from the electricians and workers working with hammers and drilling machines two meters from me disturbed me and I raised an incident at the end of the exam. Pearson Vue says that it was my fault if I was disturbed, since I didn't wear the earplugs that were offered to me (I find them awkward and uncomfortable) so I won't be able to retake it. Anyway, I ended up with a 680 (V 42, Q 41 [beyond horrible], AWA 5.0). I had performed 720 or above on all practice tests, with very good quantitative and slightly lower verbal scores, so right now I simply don't know what to do. I am under the impression that with a 41 in quantitative I will never get considered anywhere. I feel that everything I've been dreaming of and working on for a year has been crushed by that score. (I will be graduating in June with a master's in business engineering - actually pretty heavy on quantitative stuff - so I really don't have the money to retake it.) I am not really aiming at top schools - my dream uni is Bocconi, and I would have considered HEC Paris and Saïd but I feel they're completely out of my league with such a score. I am interested in quantitative CB. I did my undergrad and master's at [insert European country here]'s best business school, and I have a pretty good research experience, but unfortunately no publication yet. Should I still apply this season, even with that score, or is it better to let the profs know I won't need the letters, get a job, retake the GMAT and apply next year? Last edited by lily9 : 2009 October 31st at 03:31 PM.

2009 October 31st, 10:12 PM	#7 (permalink)
possible_phd Can't believe it Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 739	It is true that a 680 and 720 are not all that different, statistically speaking. In fact, the GMAT folks, themselves, say that your score will generally be within +/- 30 points of your "true ability" (see p3 of this sample report). In other words, a 680 could be a 650 or a 710, for all we know. That being said, a 680 isn't really treated the same as a 710, because it just can't be. Professors are very busy people, and they need an efficient way to prioritize applications. One way to do that is a simple cutoff measure, and 700 seems to be the prediction of our lay theory regarding the admissions process. How true this is obviously varies from program to program, but I would bet it's not too bad, as far as rules of thumbs go. So all else equal, could you get in with a 710 but not a 680, even though they may not be statistically different? Theoretically, sure; but realistically, who knows? And since you have now scored a 680 twice (you posted last season with a 680), it's probably fairly reflective of your ability. Taking it a third time might not be worthwhile and might even end up hurting you (e.g., what if you hit the 650 due to some fluke that day?). Of course, you may be right that external factors kept you from doing better. I took the GMAT three times, myself. The first time, I got a 700 in undergrad without studying, which was more than acceptable for when I applied to MBA programs a few years later. Once I realized I wanted a PhD while I was doing my MBA, however, I took it again and got a 710, even though I studied that time. I knew it had to be a fluke, due to other crap going on that day, so I took it again after my original score expired and got the 750 I was shooting for. The same might happen for you, but be aware of the potential risks and rewards. Unless you're fairly confident that you can bring it up to ~720+, it might not be worth the risk. Just my . _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ Last edited by possible_phd : 2009 November 1st at 01:27 AM.

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2009 October 31st, 03:48 PM	#2 (permalink)
dusklife Eager! Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 50	I suggest you do whatever you can to get the money to retake it. Sounds like you'd easily pull it up. I had a similar quant fluke (even worse, actually) my first time around, and a month later I brought it up to within my normal practice test range. I'm surprised Pearson wouldn't be more accomodating either...I'd think even with earplugs, construction drilling would remain distracting.

2009 October 31st, 04:19 PM	#3 (permalink)
clovus I JUST got here. Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 20	I don't know much about the schools you are considering. Some school would still be happy to have you (though might be worried about the low Q if you are interested in math heavy CB) but they are not going to be "top" schools by any means. You are probably looking at the lower 50%, and perhaps even the lower 75% in terms of "rankings". If that does not fit with the kind of school you would like to place at later in life, do what you can to retake the test. Fast. But you can probably get in somewhere.

2009 October 31st, 06:58 PM	#5 (permalink)
clovus I JUST got here. Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 20	Are there any lower level programs you were looking at or would be happy with? Also, have you already gotten a master degree? You could apply to a few of those as backups and try again next year.

2009 October 31st, 08:26 PM	#6 (permalink)
phdhope Eager! Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 97	I would say you could retake it if you wanted to. 680 and 720 aren't that different of scores. (Yes, they are different, but it is not like 680 is a sure reject and a 720 is a sure admit) I mean if you read the analysis that GMAT provides on their own test they admit that scores standard deviation by student is huge. They also admit that the GMAT explains less than 40% of performance in graduate school program. That being said, the test is only one of many factors that schools look at. I would also agree that depending on your school choice, that score could be more than competitive. So in short, I really wouldn't worry about that.

2009 November 1st, 12:06 AM	#8 (permalink)
SpottyRecord I JUST got here. Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 26	Retake it. If you're anything like me, you'll never forgive yourself if you don't. I'm still irritated at my own "bombings." I practiced for the GMAT by taking 6 Official Guide old tests and the 2 PowerPrep tests. I got six 800's, a 790, and a 780 (I think the PP's were 780 & 800). When I took the actual exam, I got 750. I can't blame anyone else but myself: I brainfarted on a few and really hurt myself by having the first Red Bull of my life right before I started. (My hands were so jittery from the caffeine, sugar, and stress that they were shaking almost too much to do any legible writing at all!) When I took the GRE a short while later, I skipped the Red Bull. But then I'll be darned if I didn't screw up the quant anyway. I was trying so hard to get a 1600 that I just freaked out when I hit a problem I couldn't get. Spent 15 minutes on it cuz I didn't want to give up the dream. Never got it, and had to rush through the remaining dozen or so problems. Ended up with a 1560 (760Q). This was after scoring 800Q on practically every Official Guide/PP practice test I took. Makes me angry all over again just thinking about it. What a couple of choke-jobs.

2009 November 1st, 02:59 AM	#9 (permalink)
longshot Within my grasp! Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 248	Bocconi's application deadline for a PhD in business is Feb. 15. I imagine you'd have plenty of time during the semester break to study up and retake the exam.

2009 November 1st, 03:51 AM	#10 (permalink)
kaatrin I JUST got here. Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 13	Lily9, I am sorry to hear about your exam. I live next to a construction site and think that you would probably hear the drilling and hammering through the earplugs anyway. Pearson's approach is ourageous. When I was writing my test they gave me a wet board to take notes on and a pen that was not writing three times in a row, so I wasted good 10 to 15 minutes of my quant on getting them replaced. This made me really stressed out. Then the guy sitting next to me in a T-shirt (this was December) requested the heat to be turned up. It became ridicously hot in the exam room, so bad that I could hardly breathe (and I am a type of girl that is always cold). I had to drag the proctor from outside to see for himself how hot it got and to turn it down. I got 720 somehow, when I saw the score, I could not believe my eyes! I suggest that you take it again. Pearson is not right, but there is nothing you can do about it. What you can do, is try again, this is a small sacrifice in comparison with to what you are aiming to do (phd). Good luck!

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