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marketingphd · 2009 November 2nd, 10:45 PM

Hi all,

I'm applying to PhD Marketing programs. Unfortunately, because of family situation, am limited to only major metro areas (NYC, Boston, Philly and SF) for applications...and that limits me to only really competitive programs. Can't diversify as much as most people who have posted. Anyway, question is about letters of recommendation.

After a few years out of school, I'm having 2 of my direct supervisors write recs (both with MBA's from top 3 schools) and 1-2 old professors. I felt like the former would have more compelling things to say, as I have more current and extensive relationships with both of them. Question: how much is the lack of academic recs going to hurt my shot of getting in? I recognize that it's not ideal, but based on past experience, how have people fared?

About me...

GPA: 3.6/4.0
GRE: 1430 (750Q, 680V)
Undergrad: Economics and Public Policy at top 10 school, graduation with distinction in Economics
Current: mgmt consultant at top tier firm

longshot · 2009 November 2nd, 11:38 PM

You won't be competitive at MIT/Harvard/NYU/Columbia level schools based on your test grades. So for the level of schools you'll have a shot at, your recs will be fine.

I was trying to shake out a list of programs worth applying to, and it's short. Beyond BU, BC, CUNY, and Temple, where do you plan to apply?

marketingphd · 2009 November 2nd, 11:43 PM

What about the test grades do you think is so sure a no-go? The verbal is 96th percentile and the math is surely no 800, but it's not a 650...

phdhope · 2009 November 3rd, 12:21 AM

I was actually more concerned by the 3.6 in economics for a marketing phd. But that is really beside the point. How much do LORs matter is the real question right? I would use the example of buying a really expensive object (car, computer, house, whatever...) You would certainly value the input of someone who knows the car thoroughly, has a wide knowledge on cars, is a personal friend who you trust, etc. Phd candidates are like cars. Adcoms are taking risks on who they admit. A letter from a valuable source praising them will certainly help the application. A letter from a manager, while valuable, simply doesn't compare. It is part of human nature for the adcoms to trust names of people they know and respect. How much this matters is a relative question but I think the analogy makes it clear that it is a factor of consideration.

Sorry for the analogy but I think it helps explain the idea.

marketingphd · 2009 November 3rd, 12:34 AM

This message board makes me feel like I should just give up on the idea all together. Ugh.

longshot · 2009 November 3rd, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marketingphd

What about the test grades do you think is so sure a no-go? The verbal is 96th percentile and the math is surely no 800, but it's not a 650...

I just don't think a top 10 (Berkeley, Penn, NYU, Columbia, Harvard, MIT) marketing program is going to bite on a 750Q. It's not a 650, you're correct, but I doubt they look at anything under 780, they just get so many applications.

That said, I think Temple, CUNY, and BU would be a great fit (turns out BC doesn't have a program in marketing). They won't get many applicants with the quality of your undergraduate record and industry experience, so they probably won't make a stink about a 750Q.

phdhope · 2009 November 3rd, 01:21 AM

Don't give up so easily! Just because your application isn't going to get you into the best marketing program in the world doesn't mean you can't get into a marketing program. You must also realize that we are critical of everything in profile evaluations so you can be prepared for the harsher critiques of the admission committees. Perhaps we are even more critical than the adcom boards. Our criticisms aren't meant to demotivate, merely point out areas that could be improved.

possible_phd · 2009 November 3rd, 01:25 AM

A 750 Q and industry recs = most likely no shot at the tippity top programs.

Sorry, but that's how it goes.

marketingphd · 2009 November 3rd, 01:33 AM

Thanks for your kind words, Possible.

possible_phd · 2009 November 3rd, 01:37 AM

It's not meant to be insulting, it's just the reality of the nature of the game we all have to play to get in. Trust me, my quant score was on the low end, too, so I feel your pain on that. The only reason I was able to overcome it was my strong, academic references, and that's the reality of the situation.

You asked, so I assumed you wanted the answer, even if it wasn't what you wanted to hear.

2009 November 2nd, 10:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
marketingphd I JUST got here. Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4	Letters of recommendation - academic vs. industry Hi all, I'm applying to PhD Marketing programs. Unfortunately, because of family situation, am limited to only major metro areas (NYC, Boston, Philly and SF) for applications...and that limits me to only really competitive programs. Can't diversify as much as most people who have posted. Anyway, question is about letters of recommendation. After a few years out of school, I'm having 2 of my direct supervisors write recs (both with MBA's from top 3 schools) and 1-2 old professors. I felt like the former would have more compelling things to say, as I have more current and extensive relationships with both of them. Question: how much is the lack of academic recs going to hurt my shot of getting in? I recognize that it's not ideal, but based on past experience, how have people fared? About me... GPA: 3.6/4.0 GRE: 1430 (750Q, 680V) Undergrad: Economics and Public Policy at top 10 school, graduation with distinction in Economics Current: mgmt consultant at top tier firm

2009 November 3rd, 01:25 AM	#8 (permalink)
possible_phd Can't believe it Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 741	A 750 Q and industry recs = most likely no shot at the tippity top programs. Sorry, but that's how it goes. _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ Last edited by possible_phd : 2009 November 3rd at 04:14 AM.

2009 November 3rd, 01:37 AM	#10 (permalink)
possible_phd Can't believe it Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 741	It's not meant to be insulting, it's just the reality of the nature of the game we all have to play to get in. Trust me, my quant score was on the low end, too, so I feel your pain on that. The only reason I was able to overcome it was my strong, academic references, and that's the reality of the situation. You asked, so I assumed you wanted the answer, even if it wasn't what you wanted to hear. _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _

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2009 November 2nd, 11:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
longshot Within my grasp! Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 249	You won't be competitive at MIT/Harvard/NYU/Columbia level schools based on your test grades. So for the level of schools you'll have a shot at, your recs will be fine. I was trying to shake out a list of programs worth applying to, and it's short. Beyond BU, BC, CUNY, and Temple, where do you plan to apply?

2009 November 2nd, 11:43 PM	#3 (permalink)
marketingphd I JUST got here. Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4	What about the test grades do you think is so sure a no-go? The verbal is 96th percentile and the math is surely no 800, but it's not a 650...

2009 November 3rd, 12:21 AM	#4 (permalink)
phdhope Eager! Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 97	I was actually more concerned by the 3.6 in economics for a marketing phd. But that is really beside the point. How much do LORs matter is the real question right? I would use the example of buying a really expensive object (car, computer, house, whatever...) You would certainly value the input of someone who knows the car thoroughly, has a wide knowledge on cars, is a personal friend who you trust, etc. Phd candidates are like cars. Adcoms are taking risks on who they admit. A letter from a valuable source praising them will certainly help the application. A letter from a manager, while valuable, simply doesn't compare. It is part of human nature for the adcoms to trust names of people they know and respect. How much this matters is a relative question but I think the analogy makes it clear that it is a factor of consideration. Sorry for the analogy but I think it helps explain the idea.

2009 November 3rd, 12:34 AM	#5 (permalink)
marketingphd I JUST got here. Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4	This message board makes me feel like I should just give up on the idea all together. Ugh.

2009 November 3rd, 01:21 AM	#7 (permalink)
phdhope Eager! Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 97	Don't give up so easily! Just because your application isn't going to get you into the best marketing program in the world doesn't mean you can't get into a marketing program. You must also realize that we are critical of everything in profile evaluations so you can be prepared for the harsher critiques of the admission committees. Perhaps we are even more critical than the adcom boards. Our criticisms aren't meant to demotivate, merely point out areas that could be improved.

2009 November 3rd, 01:33 AM	#9 (permalink)
marketingphd I JUST got here. Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4	Thanks for your kind words, Possible.

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