stinkybeagle Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 If your only offer was from your safety school (Top 50, faculty publications in mostly mid-level journals but strong research match, decent funding), would you accept it and worry about placement when you're done in 5 years or would you take a year to improve your credentials in order to get in to a better program? I appreciate all your thoughts. (BTW, I am very grateful for the offer, but my goal is to teach at an R1 institution like a University of Minnesota not a teaching school) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evergreen Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Well, first off, I only applied to schools that I was actually willing and excited to go to. So, as long as I had one offer, I knew I would have a place to go to next year. I think you would have a tough (maybe impossible) time getting an offer at a place like Minnesota from a Top50. How much can you really improve your credentials in a year? What would you even be improving? If you're young and feel like you can honestly make your profile change that much in a year, maybe it's worth it. But, be realistic about how much you can honestly do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
economist2b Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I don't know enough about placements, but you may want to consider how much you can improve your profile by December - it's not a true year. It may take two years to make a real difference; are you willing to wait? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopefulapp Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I don't know enough about placements, but you may want to consider how much you can improve your profile by December - it's not a true year. It may take two years to make a real difference; are you willing to wait? This is what I think as well. I didn't apply to any schools I wouldn't be happy to attend. Of course, I had a hierarchy in mind, but I would still attend any that I get accepted to. Sit down and really evaluate why you didn't get into the top schools you wanted to. Are you in a position (financially, opportunity wise, will it match up with your lifestyle) to change your profile much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsaylors Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 SB: There's little that a year of no-school is going to fix. If you are good enough then you can do a good job in your t50 program and apply-up from there; if you're not good enough then you may want to realize that even if you have an IQ of 150 there's still 150k people smarter than you in the US... and that's enough to take every T1 faculty position in the US. Well, first off, I only applied to schools that I was actually willing and excited to go to. So, as long as I had one offer, I knew I would have a place to go to next year. you did WHAT?!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evergreen Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 you did WHAT?!! Yup. I asked my supervisor how many "safety schools" I should apply to and he looked at me blankly and said... apply to "good" schools. Apply only to schools you would actually want to go to. So I followed that advice, and thankfully it all worked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkybeagle Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Great points, guys and thanks for the replies. The biggest thing I can improve on is my GMAT and research experience. (My UG GPA is average but it was a long time ago and my MA GPA is pretty good). If i'm honest with myself, i'd have to admit that what's bothering me is the prestige thing. It sounds pretty shallow, but my undergrad and grad schools were rather prestigious and this feels like a step down. I just need to let that go. If I don't hear from my 1st choice, i'll take this offer and make the best of it. (I only applied to 3 schools due to personal reasons.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappy Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I only applied to 3 schools due to personal reasons. This might be the only important factor that could potentially give you a reason to apply again next year. The acceptance rates of most top programs are very low and each school has their own set of criteria in the application process. Just because you might be a great applicant that can get into T10 schools, you'll still probably get rejects from several (if not most) of them. Applying to 3 schools is a very low number - most people apply to many more. If you're willing to bend your personal reasons and apply more widely, you might just be able to get into a school in the prestige level you want. But if you're stuck to that small subset (perhaps location based), I'd agree with what everyone else said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppleAndOrange Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I think you would have a tough (maybe impossible) time getting an offer at a place like Minnesota from a Top50. The evidence does not bear this statement out. 10 out of 16 faculty members at UMN are from Big 10 schools and the others (barring 2 from Wharton) are from schools across the T50. To the OP: I had the same questions as you floating through my head last year. The truth is, focus most on "fit" with students and who your adviser is. If the better adviser for you is at a higher ranked school, then your decision is easy. If a lower ranked school feels like more of a match, go with that intuition 100%. Rest assured, you will be much better off at a place where you are comfortable, and the relationship between comfort and rankings is not clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evergreen Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I took top 50 to mean ranked between 31st and 50th (top 30 to mean ranked between 21st-30th, and top 20 to mean ranked between 11th and 20th) In which case I counted Wang, Van de Ven and Singh. (I'm not too familiar with management journals so I may be using the wrong journals) So yes, maybe not impossible, but definitely tough and an uphill battle. I don't know how much weight the California Review has but Wang won the best paper award the year he was on job market. Van de Ven is much older, and previously worked at Wharton. I don't know about Singh. We can't all immediately assume that we'll enter our programs and be superstars. So I wouldn't bank on "reaching" for the top programs. If it does happen, that's great, but if not, you should be okay with that outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evergreen Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 But you're right, it's not impossible. I still think it'd be difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSFive Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I also only applied to schools I would want to go to my first year (this year), and planned to expand the list if I didn't get in anywhere this year. I preferred to have two shots at the top schools, and only take one shot at safety schools, and know it wasn't a fluke if I ended up at a lower school (still might be a fluke that I ended up at a higher school - it wasn't at all certain based on my profile). Fortunately it worked out. Still, I wanted to share this article I read recently about academic mobility, and how to move up from wherever you start: planning your academic mobility « orgtheory.net It's obviously hard work, and still risky, but if you have a specific goal in mind, and you can't start at a top school, you can still work smart towards your eventual goal from wherever you got in, if you can be happy there. Still, you should be aware of the odds, and how much it will take to achieve success, regardless of the path you choose. The blog above has a number of posts, over time, about how to make the most of your opportunities (including how to network for a research job, if your school doesn't already have that system in place on your behalf). One of my mentors from college was at a less well known teaching college (where I attended), and had to manage her larger course load and work her butt off publishing, but now she's making substantially more at a T30-T50 research school. Note that even coming from a very top program, you're not guaranteed a spot (or tenure) in a top school - it will come down to your eventual publishing record, and other factors including some luck. Just looking at the recent placements for Wharton (Wharton Doctoral Programs | Recent Placements). In Management I see placements at places like the University of Hartford. Reaching for top programs can make sense, but I've decided to be OK with the outcome however it turns out (or at least keep in mind that I might need to place lower, work hard, and work my way up, depending on the job market when I graduate, no matter how well I do in school). Good luck, with whatever you decide! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkybeagle Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 Hi All! You've made some great points and I greatly appreciate it. As it turns out, tonight I received word that I've been admitted into my 1st choice program. I will accept their offer as soon as the official letter gets here. (Having only applied to 3 programs, I've been making myself sick with worry that I would either not get in or I'd be attending the less preferred program.) My first choice program is definitely more prestigious than the one I referred to in my original post, but more importantly, it is a much better fit. The thing that worried me most about the "safety program" was that the faculty was not publishing in the top journals and I feel that would impact the kind of work that i'd be doing, which would impact the kind of job i'd get in 4-5 years. Anyway, thank you again for your feedback. I'm still in total shock at the fact that my gamble actually worked. (I would not recommend this strategy. You will definitely end up with an ulcer at the end! :playful:) Off to a great night sleep for the first time in 2 weeks!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evergreen Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Congratulations @stinkybeagle, that's awesome! Best of luck in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indus Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 @Stinkybeagle: During placement prestige matters, but its not everything. In last 5 years my school (a T25 school) has placed 3 candidates at T10 schools and 2 at T50 schools. Others had good offers too, but had locational preferences. Hence issues raised by other posters (fit / research / comfort / location etc.) are important considerations and can't be completely nullified by pure prestige. All the best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arieshine Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Congratulations! What a great ending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doingfine Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 @Stinkybeagle: During placement prestige matters, but its not everything. In last 5 years my school (a T25 school) has placed 3 candidates at T10 schools and 2 at T50 schools. Others had good offers too, but had locational preferences. Hence issues raised by other posters (fit / research / comfort / location etc.) are important considerations and can't be completely nullified by pure prestige. All the best! Hmmm... where are you? :D You're in management, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSFive Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 As it turns out, tonight I received word that I've been admitted into my 1st choice program. Congratulations!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busybee3 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Congrats stinkybeagle!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkybeagle Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 Thanks, guys! I'm nursing a slight hangover this morning after an impromptu celebration last night. This forum has been such a godsend, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for everyone. Good luck!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behavioral Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Congrats. That's a hangover well-deserved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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