European PhD?

**rookie21** · 06-30-2012, 02:45 PM

How would you rate European PhD programs?

I understand LBS and Insead are Tier 1. Would other programs (Oxbridge, HEC, RSM, IE, IESE) fall under Tier 2?

Would a PhD from Tier 2 help in gaining a tenure track role in a T50 research school in the US? (I'm looking at marketing CB, if that makes any difference)

Thanks

**rsaylors** · 06-30-2012, 06:19 PM

HI Rookie,

It depends on what your end goal is. If you want a tenure-track position in the US you should go to the US for school. If you want a position in Europe things get a little more dicey. Your best bet is to look at the placement record of the individual schools in question and see if they have students going to programs that you want to be placed in.

-Rohny

**rookie21** · 07-01-2012, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by rsaylors

HI Rookie,

It depends on what your end goal is. If you want a tenure-track position in the US you should go to the US for school. If you want a position in Europe things get a little more dicey. Your best bet is to look at the placement record of the individual schools in question and see if they have students going to programs that you want to be placed in.

-Rohny

How would you rank these European programs?

Apart from LBS and Insead (which are top two), are there any other programs which are well respected in the US?

Erasmus seem to have had good placements in the US - over the last few years, they've sent marketing PhDs to Penn State, Maryland and Colorado.

**rsaylors** · 07-01-2012, 07:05 PM

How would you rank these European programs?

Apart from the brand-name that LBS and INSEAD offer, I am 'neutral' on euro-programs, giving the candidate neither halo nor horns; this is because in Europe, even more so than in the US, a Ph.D. is what the student makes of it.
(though I would definitely stick to AACSB accredited programs, unless the school has an amazing placement record)

"Erasmus seem to have had good placements in the US - over the last few years, they've sent marketing PhDs to Penn State, Maryland and Colorado." Sounds like a top program to me.

I would just add: Focus heavily on as much quantitative knowledge as you can get. Euro-programs are known for their lack of quantitative methodological rigor, preferring philosophical considerations of ontology and epistemology to the more pragmatic considerations of validity and reliability. Personally, I prefer the European philosophical conversation; but if your goal is the US then you're going to want, at minimum, knowledge enough to be highly proficient at multiple-regression and structural equation modeling.

**sb29** · 07-02-2012, 07:37 PM

Had applied to many European programs. After INSEAD, I would rate Erasmus the next best (in mainland Euro). Other good programs include HEC, ESSEC, IE, IESE and Bocconi.

I had checked the placements of many of these places. US T50 is rare unless the person does a post doc in a top US university.

Also you should keep in mind that you should choose programs which are 'US Style' in structure and content. AACSB accreditation will be a good point to start looking.

**stagename** · 07-02-2012, 11:16 PM

I'd also say it's field-dependent. I know Bocconi is rather well seen in my domain and I'd say Southern Denmark is up and coming... Be aware, though, that as rsaylors mentioned, scholarship is different in Europe. Most of the student speakrs we had coming over here were (way too much) theory oriented and would have issues publishing in top journals in my field.

**sysco** · 07-03-2012, 09:56 AM

Don't forget Tilburg University, CentER (Faculty of Economics and Management) Research Master and PhD programs. It has even been established before Erasmus Rotterdam and is at least as known as is Erasmus in US and around the globe. Specially in Behavioral Marketing, as I know, it is very strong.
I think LBS, INSEAD, Tilburg (CentER), Erasmus are the top 4 of Europe.

**sysco** · 07-03-2012, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by stagename

I'd also say it's field-dependent. I know Bocconi is rather well seen in my domain and I'd say Southern Denmark is up and coming... Be aware, though, that as rsaylors mentioned, scholarship is different in Europe. Most of the student speakrs we had coming over here were (way too much) theory oriented and would have issues publishing in top journals in my field.

Hey stagename ! May I ask what is your field? It is interesting for me to know what is the field that its PhD 'studnets' publish in top journals. Furthermore, could you please elaborate on the bolded part: ' Most of the student speakers we had coming over here were (way too much) theory oriented and ...',
Does this mean that in Europe, in general, the business studies in PhD level is more academic while in US (and perhaps Canada, or actually in Northern America ) business studies in PhD level is more practice oriented; while the former is more about the development of abstract (or pure) theories , the latter is more concerned with real practices in business section.

**rookie21** · 07-03-2012, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by sysco

I think LBS, INSEAD, Tilburg (CentER), Erasmus are the top 4 of Europe.

I think this is a fair ranking.

Thanks for the pointers guys....

**stagename** · 07-03-2012, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by sysco

Hey stagename ! May I ask what is your field? It is interesting for me to know what is the field that its PhD 'studnets' publish in top journals. Furthermore, could you please elaborate on the bolded part: ' Most of the student speakers we had coming over here were (way too much) theory oriented and ...',
Does this mean that in Europe, in general, the business studies in PhD level is more academic while in US (and perhaps Canada, or actually in Northern America ) business studies in PhD level is more practice oriented; while the former is more about the development of abstract (or pure) theories , the latter is more concerned with real practices in business section.

Marketing. I said students would have trouble publishing, not that they are currently doing so (;P) but there are, though, students publishing in top marketing journals. The best example I have in mind in marketing is/was on the job market recently and has 4 "A"s pubs (1 JMR, 1 JCR and 2 JCP): Theodore Noseworthy . Another who published as a student in "As" was Zeynep Arsel (2 "A"s with Craig Thompson). I'm sure there's a bunch more, if you look at the docsig survey there's always 20 or so pubs in the 5 top journals in marketing.

I'd say that you interpreted what I said correctly. I just wanted to add that the issue with the students who presented here was that their research often had little marketing impact and often didn't use much data. It would make great Marketing Theory articles, but would be harder to publish in JM or JCR. I'm not saying that N.A. school are weak theoretically, but I'd say the research done is a bit more pragmatic, aka it provides answer to real issues and/or helps us understand consumers better and/or is more geared toward publishing. The first question I'm being asked here when talking about my research is: what is the outlet (in term of journal). Since the publishing game is so much N.A. centric (with, of course, exceptions, e.g. Thorsten Hennig-Thurau), I'm feeling publishing in "As" isn't a top priority in European schools.

**EDIT** I could of course be wrong, but talks I had with professors and students seem to echo what I described above.