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Thread: Maketing PhD ranking by Group in North America

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    Maketing PhD ranking by Group in North America

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    A+ A A- B+ B
    Columbia University
    Cornell University
    Duke University
    University of California at Berkeley
    University of Chicago
    University of Pennsylvania
    Carnegie Mellon University
    Harvard University
    Massachusetts Institute of Technology
    New York University
    Yale University
    Stanford University
    University of California at Los Angeles
    University of Southern California
    Washington University at St. Louis
    Ohio State University
    Pennsylvania State University
    University of Pittsburgh
    University of Texas at Austin
    Emory University (Quant only)
    Indiana University at Bloomington
    Texas A&M University at College Station
    University of British Columbia
    University of Colorado at Boulder
    University of Florida
    University of Rochester (Quant only)
    University of Maryland at College Park
    University of Michigan at Ann Arbor
    University of Minnesota at Twin Cities
    University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
    University of Toronto
    University of Wisconsin at Madison

    University of Washington
    Boston College
    Baruch College
    Florida State University
    Michigan State University(Quant only)
    Purdue University(Quant only)
    University of Alberta
    University of Arizona
    University of Connecticut
    University of Iowa
    University of Miami
    Arizona State University
    University of Missouri at Columbia
    University of Oregon
    University of South Carolina at Columbia
    Virginia Tech
    Georgia Institute of Technology
    Georgia State University(Quant only)
    University of California at Irvine
    University of California at San Diego
    University of Houston
    University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
    University of Texas at Dallas(Quant only)
    Western Ontario University
    McGill University
    Temple University
    University of Arkansas
    University of Calgary
    University of California at Riverside
    University of Central Florida
    University of Cincinnati
    University of Georgia
    University of Kentucky
    University of Kansas
    University of Nebraska at Lincoln
    University of Utah
    Rutgers University
    Syracuse University
    University of Texas at San Antonio
    York University

    SUNY at Buffalo

    University of Tennnesse
    Colorado State University
    Drexel University
    Florida International University
    Iowa State University
    Oklahoma State University
    Simon Fraser University
    University of Alabama at Tuscaloosa
    University of Illinois at Chicago
    University of Louisville
    University of Mississippi
    University of Oklahoma
    University of South Florida
    University of Texas at Arlington
    University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee
    Louisiana State University
    PhD in Marketing | Georgia Tech
    Source: Georgia Tech University- Marketing Department
    My purpose of ranking is not to compare which one is better than others. The ranking is good for later applicants who want to increase the chance of admission by sending applications from group A to B.
    The competitiveness is equally measured by GMAT, GPA, undergrad university. 70%
    The rigor of curriculum
    is measured by level of Quantitative(Econ, Math) and Psychology, Sociology. 30%
    I tried to take into account the strength of 3 track in Marketing: Strategy, Modelling, and Consumer Behavior which varies by schools. Therefore, Between the neighbor group like A+, A or A- etc, there are overlapping elements like Toronto may be in A+ for Quant and Strategy, but can be A for consumer. The same for Duke, CMU, Michigan...
    Some programs are very picky and admit only one student per year. Grouping is not 100% correctly, some overlapping schools between groups exists.
    My Ranking criteria are based on the difficulty on admission ( competitiveness) and the rigor of curriculum. Quant only is the program that does not have Consumer Behavior track.
    If the schools are in the same group, they are nearly equal in term of reputation, admission rate, rigor of curriculum, and placement. The schools in the A+ group are more likely to hire the students from other schools within group, sometimes hire from group A, hardly or never from group A- or B and so on.
    Group A hires from A+, within A, sometime A- , hardly B+( depend on student ability and advisor reputation)
    If the programs are within the same group, it very hard to say which one is better than other. The choices of school within group are often based on research interest, adviser reputation. Thus, the variance within group is small, but variance between groups is higher.

    In group A+ and A:
    Degree Requirement for Quant-Track: Series of graduate Micreconomics and Econometrics in ECON dept, Marketing Seminars, 3-6 courses in Statistics Dept. Therefore, the schools tend to admit the students who have strong quantitative background similar to students in ECON Dept in the same school. The qualifying exam is very rigorous.
    Degree Requirement for CB-Track: Series of Psychology courses or Sociology, Marketing Seminars, 3-6 courses in Statistics Dept.
    In group A- and below:
    Degree Requirement is less rigorous: Marketing seminars, ECON and Statistics are elective.
    Some exceptional programs such as Houston, Texas Dallas, Georgia State, Temple, South Carolina are on the up trend of research activities, they have many influential professors in Marketing field. Therefore, some years, we can see the placement on A school, but again it depends much on student performance in the program and adviser reputation.

    If you have many offers, you can use following criteria to make a wise decision:
    1.Look at the curriculum of each program.
    2.Know the content of course work, and who will teach the class.
    3.Who will be the mentor for your research, the most important thing.
    4. Know the research activity of professors in the program.
    5. Location
    6. Stipend
    7. Marketing research Center and research facillity
    8. Opinion from current students.
    9. Placement records
    10. Your plan after graduation: teaching or research schools, or balanced ones
    11. Assistantship duties: too many teaching duties may affect academic performance

    Please feel free to remind me programs that are not in the ranking, so that I can add up, OR you can consider the universities in the list Phd Programs in Marketing
    To be continued...


    Last edited by hngu178; 04-06-2018 at 02:35 PM.

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    Public Service Announcement for Marketing Strategy

    Important tips for those of you going into strategy.

    I'm a recent graduate now, but wished I knew some of these things beforehand.

    Choose a school based on your connection with the faculty--NOT rank. Note below may sound harsh, but I think this is the best way to let future students know what to look out for. PhD is not as glamerous as it sounds. Also, many of you may be going into it because of big ego purposes, and not because you love research. And you should go in knowing that you cannot know whether you love research until you have been through the entire publication process. It sounds fun as an idea, but when you get in the trenches, you will see what I mean. Also, some students get big because they are glorified RAs, and not because of their own work. So figure out which route you want to take.


    Here is an example based on word of mouth of a bad school:

    University of Georgia is a terrible school. I've met some students there, and there is a lot of faculty conflict/personality issues at UGA. Take a look at their placement record, and you will see that they place well below their peer ranked schools. Their methods training is also pretty weak.

    Sundar Bharadwaj is known to be an ineffective teacher/adviser; he will only see you as a data collection pig, and not help you with any intellectually related work. I've heard from two occasions that he stole a coauthor's data, and worked on another project without letting the original coauthor know about this data sharing. Unethical person.

    Son Lam is a socially awkward person to meet at conferences, and has screwed over many previous coauthors. For example, he consistently has a habit of kicking people off of papers, and then suddenly changing his mind about doing that.

    John Hulland is someone who will be nice to you up front but not behind the scenes.

    Really ask yourself if you want to live out 5 years of your PhD in a hostile environment.

    Here is an example of a good school, base on word of mouth:

    Missouri is a good school in terms of training and being taken care of by the faculty. Those people have good intentions, based on my interactions with them at conferences. Their students sometimes place well above their rank.

    I've heard nice things about Lisa Scheer as a person, and that she steers you in the right direction with honest feedback.

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    Re: Maketing PhD ranking by Group in North America

    duplicate post.
    Last edited by another user; 04-05-2018 at 11:06 PM.

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    Re: Maketing PhD ranking by Group in North America

    How do you measure difficulty on admission and rigor of curriculum? Not even admission rate is a good measure for this, you would need data on students choice and their possible choices (what school they chose when they could have chosen others) to make a revealed preference approach. Or at least have the enrollment rate of those admitted. Do you have this data or this is just your feeling?

    Maybe I have a biased sample here but I can tell you that I know lots of people who chose some schools from group A and A- over some of the group A+. To be more specific, I find hard to believe that UCLA, USC and WUSTL are in group A+ while Michigan, Maryland, UCSD and Toronto are not. Also, following the criteria presented, it's very weird to think that UCSD and Dallas are in the same group as Western Ontario and Florida State for example, and in the group below that of Boulder and Florida.

    From what I've seen for the two first groups it should be (in no specific order):
    A+: Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Yale, Columbia, NYU, Northwestern, Penn, Berkeley
    A: UCLA, USC, UCSD, Duke, Michigan, Cornell, CMU, WUSTL, Maryland... maybe UW, Rochester, Minnesota, Toronto (I think these are slightly below).
    A- should include Dallas, Emory, UBC, UNC, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Penn State, Austin ... maybe Indiana, Houston, TAMU.

    But I don't have access to any kind of data on admissions, so my ranking would be based on my perceptions about students' choices and on placements after graduation for quant.

    As for rigor of curriculum, this may vary a lot especially if the classes are taken with the economics students, because some of these universities have very different rankings in economics. For example, USC, UW, CMU, WUSTL have considerably worse economics programs compared to their quant program, Michigan, Duke, Cornell, UCLA have similar ranked programs (top 15), and Wisconsin and Minnesota are better ranked in economics.
    Also some schools have very flexible structure and students don't all take the same courses (Cornell and USC are examples).

    Nice exercise anyway, better than just take a look at UTD.
    Last edited by another user; 04-03-2018 at 09:04 AM. Reason: was just testing because the forum doesn't let me post sometimes

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    Re: Maketing PhD ranking by Group in North America

    Trying to create a ranking is always a big problem. But, more important than the ranking, hngu178 provided the reasoning behind the ranking. Each one may come up with a different ranking, because it is really a personal thing. But the things to think about are more or less the same. So, very good.


    Just to add my two cents.


    I did some sort of ranking for myself when I was applying. But if I tried to do a ranking again now, after a few months of experience doing a PhD, it would be very, very different. And, curiously, it would be much harder now (yeah, having more information and experience can make things even more confusing). I know my experience is still limited, my sample is small, there is a lot of survival bias etc. But the more I learn, the more rankings seem less and less relevant, at least for me.


    I've met professors and PhD students from other schools, at different levels of ranking. I've seen them presenting their research, talking about their careers, etc.


    I've been greatly impressed by some research from lower level schools, and really disappointed by some presentations from people from A+ schools. A very eye-opening moment to me was to see a presentation from a guy from a really top school get completely crushed when someone in the audience pointed a major flaw in his reasoning that made everything he was showing useless. Beautiful math, wrong reasoning, useless work.


    I've talked with professors from A+ schools talking about their experiences, and thinking that's not what I'd like to do with my life. I've talked with professors who left A+ schools (really dream school level) and are now at a lower ranked school, doing much better.


    By now, it seems to me that the ranking of a school is weakly correlated with the quality of the work produced by their PhD students for at least the top 50 schools. There doesn’t seem to be a really significant difference between A+, A, and A-, and even if there is a difference in general, there are many exceptions to the rule. It is no wonder that hngu178 said that A schools hire from A+, A, A-, and even A+ schools can hire from A-.


    And, by now, it seems to me that the ranking of a school is also weakly correlated with the quality of the job they offer to their professors. Several professors from several schools mentioned something like that in one way or another.


    So, if the goal is to get a good job, getting too fixed on ranking can be a very bad strategy. It can make you go to a bad job at an A+ school, instead of getting a great job at an A- school, for example. Particularly if a positive working environment is more important than status for you. I've seen some bad things said about a few A+ schools, by people who are there and people who decided to leave them. And some great things about schools that were completely off my radar.

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    Re: Maketing PhD ranking by Group in North America

    removing duplicate post

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    Re: Maketing PhD ranking by Group in North America

    By now, it seems to me that the ranking of a school is weakly correlated with the quality of the work produced by their PhD students for at least the top 50 schools. There doesn’t seem to be a really significant difference between A+, A, and A-, and even if there is a difference in general, there are many exceptions to the rule. It is no wonder that hngu178 said that A schools hire from A+, A, A-, and even A+ schools can hire from A-.
    I believe the quality of the work is very highly correlated with the placement. Consider the ranking I proposed in my previous post and check out their placements, you'll see that it does make sense (at least for quants). So school ranking should also be correlated with research quality, although it is not a perfect correlation.

    But if we consider a student's ability as given, I don't think it makes that difference being in A+, A or A- (my ranking). That's why I agree with this:
    So, if the goal is to get a good job, getting too fixed on ranking can be a very bad strategy.
    It's definitely important to consider other aspects besides ranking, such as location, funding, program structure, research interests in common with faculty, and so on.

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    Re: Maketing PhD ranking by Group in North America

    duplicate post.
    Last edited by another user; 04-05-2018 at 11:06 PM.

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    Re: Maketing PhD ranking by Group in North America

    remove
    Last edited by another user; 04-06-2018 at 09:45 PM.

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    Re: Maketing PhD ranking by Group in North America

    Agree, like a moderation or mediation effect from research quality to placements.
    Quote Originally Posted by another user View Post
    So school ranking should also be correlated with research quality, although it is not a perfect correlation.

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