Chances for admission at Top Phd Business Economics / Finance Program?

[chartreuse]

Hello,
Its been 4 years that I've graduated from u-grad. I had never planned to go back to grad school, much less than do a PhD. It appears that I am one of those pple for whom the PhD was more of a very long serious afterthought, rather than a very carefully planned career. After having worked in the private sector doing mostly research, I'm thinking about getting a Phd in business economics/ finance and applying in the fall of 2008.

I graduated with major in Econ from a top school in the country (one of the top 3). However, my academic performance there was just average -(around 3.6 GPA). I have still yet to take the GMAT, but have full confidence that I can score 750+ as I am good with standardized tests. I have extensive research/teaching experience from u-grad till now. I am currently working on publishing a paper to be submitted to a journal. I can get recs from 2 tenured academics who are at the best schools in the country (top 2) and another who is at a good school in Latin America.

Given my profile, how difficult would it be to get into a top PhD program for business economics / finance, e.g. harvard, wharton, columbia? Does GPA matter less the further one is out of u-grad? I know my academic performance does not show for anything but I changed after I got out of college - and so did my professional interests.

Thank you very much for your input.

[desimba]

Getting into a top tier program in Business Economics/ Finance is never a slam dunk no matter how strong your credentials are. Just consider this: Columbia admitted 5 of 219 candidates who had applied to the program. Or how about this: The average GMAT score of the admitted candidate into the doctoral prog. at Wharton was 750 (which at least when I took the test in 2003 was 99 percentile)! Therefore you can never be sure that you will get into a good PhD program as it really is tough. Having said that though I would say that you have a strong profile which would merit a serious consideration by the adcoms. One of the things that would be critical is how many math courses you have taken and what kinds of grades you had in those. The next two most important criteria would be how enthusiastic your recommenders are and whether you have a publication in a research journal by the time you apply. Finally business schools also pay a fair bit of attention to SOPs so you have to articulate your interests clearly and say why you want to do a PhD, why now and tell them that you are prepared to handle the rigors of a top-notch academic program. If you are able to cover all of your bases as mentioned, I wouldn't be surprised to see you get an admit from one of the few programs that you mentioned such as Columbia/ Wharton. To avoid ugly surprises though you should apply to a couple of safe schools as well such as Pittsburgh/ Purdue/ Indiana, etc.

Hope this is useful,
SB

[chartreuse]

So, grades do matter no matter how long it has been since I graduated? I know that for other professional schools like law, it's all about LSATs & GPA but if one has been in the workforce for about 5 years, the importance of GPA diminishes. Is it really not the same for a PhD in Finance?

On that note, after having read some posts, I find that some people are saying that work experience counts for nothing for a PhD program. Is this true?

Thanks -- I would like to get a discussion going with some serious responses!

[EE570]

In general I would say that your background is fairly good, and would imagine that you have the potential to obtain admission to some places, but as stated it is almost impossible to obtain admissions to top schools. I think that the time away from school will hinder you in some ways (I have no idea if your GPA will be discounted with time), academia is different from the private sector and you will be amazed at how much you forget. Given that you would like to enter Finance , you will need a pretty hefty amount of math, and a type of math of which I doubt you use in your day to day work life.

I think that work experience provides little help in being admitted to a top PhD program (unlike some professional programs), unless you have been working for the FED or the like. What type of research and teaching experience have you obtained from your UG until now?

Also, I don't know where a 3.6 GPA is average, unless your UG practiced ridiculous grade inflation.

[chartreuse]

The GPA is not at all inflated.

I've worked at a prestigious academic research organization doing financial economics research. At u-grad, I've worked with various profs/researchers in policy oriented research, where economics was still a major component of our projects. With regards to teaching, I've set up my own educational consultancy since the beginning of ugrad till now.

Do you know anything about NYUs Finance PhD program? How good is this program?

Thanks again!

[EE570]

Well that sounds like pretty good experience to me. You probably have a good shot at some top programs. My only concern would be lack of some math.

I would put NYU's program probably in the top 5-6 with Chicago, Wharton, Stanford, MIT, and the big H (biz econ).

best of luck.

[desimba]

I would agree with the comment above on the PhD program in Finance at NYU. If you look at other top schools, you will find faculty members at practically every one of these schools who himself has a PhD from NYU which is a great reflection of the program's strength.

One comment that applies to both Columbia & NYU is the fact that because of their presence in NY, they find it easy to attract faculty members who have a desire in consulting work because they can take a train to get to Wall Street should they need to. And they also have lots of practicioners active in these programs which is a good thing as there is an active back and forth between these universities and the mecca of banking, NY!

[chartreuse]

Thank you all very much for your input/insight. I am very new to this territory and still am trying to unearth as much as I can.

Have you ever heard of cases where people go for an MBA first then jump into a PhD program afterwards? Would the chances for admission at a prestigious program (e.g. Harvard/Wharton) be better?

Also, why is Yale School of Management fall suddenly to the rank 20 or so? Not that Yale ever struck me as a biz/econ school - it's more law/liberal arts, but still, I can think off the top of my head.. Shiller is there!

[JuanFangio]

The case with Yale is an interesting one. They started their SOM (school of Management) not very long ago, I think during the 90s. William Donaldson, former chief of the SEC, was put in charge of setting up a top-notch business school, but if I recall correctly he left very early and everything was left in disarray.

The Yale SOM has been trying to climb up the rankings ever since, but it's lack of tradition has made it a business school that on the most part free-rides from the prestige of the overall university.

I think Shiller is in Yale, but not in the B school.

[chartreuse]

Thanks, JuanFangio. However, when I looked at their website (Yale's SOM), they still seem to be ultra-selective about their candidates. I was wondering if it actually is THAT competitive because of the high caliber of the program for the chosen few or if it is just a way to market themselves to be so to attract high quality candidates.

Cheers!