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stylz123 · 12-11-2007, 06:26 AM

I am currently a 2nd year student at a top 10 finance phd program. Through the course of the past couple years I've realized that a PhD is probably not for me. I've been finding the research far too esoteric and it seems that the research papers written are not used in industry at all.

So lately I have been contemplating leaving with my Masters and working in industry, since I am far more attracted to applicable finance. Would it help to have any other qualifications (MFE, MBA, CFA, etc.) or would I have a good chance of landing a job (I'm interested in asset management).

In addition, how much weight does industry put on graduate course grades, GPA, etc?

Ancalagon The Black · 12-11-2007, 02:25 PM

What program are you in? I don't think that the industry much cares about your grades as long as you show them productivity...

shootermcgavin7 · 12-13-2007, 03:47 AM

A question and a point:

Q) Do you have any prior work experience?

P) If your goal is to work for a hedge fund or an Ibank, you might be better off sticking it out a couple of more years and then go into industry with your PhD; or alternatively try to pick up enough classes to leave with a master's in mathematical risk management or something along those lines.

stylz123 · 12-13-2007, 05:49 PM

I pretty much started my phd straight from undergrad. I worked for about 8 months at an engineering company after undergrad but left the job to start my program.

My goal right now is to get into asset management. I'm not sure how much a phd will help with that, other than to signal me as a hardworker. Other than that, the skills I'm learning here don't seem like they'd translate over that well. I plan to take a couple of econometric classes next semester which I think woudl help me in industry (as well as apply to asset management firms).

Sticking around for another 2.5-3 years to get a phd seems like a waste to me if my end goal isn't to go into academia anyway. I'm just worried that I may have a tough time finding a job. I'm really not too familiar with the finance industry to know what kind of chances I have.

lcappa · 12-13-2007, 07:01 PM

Im from Brazil, so my views are reflected considering what Ive learned from 3 years experience in our asset man. and trading desks - which I am aware to be less technical than in the US, plus some ocasional contact with acquaintances working in the US. Even here, a growing percentage of trading departments in a leading instituion have at least one Phd or eventually a master with much work in applied methods. On a quantitative department (again, even here, a less developed market, where exclusive quant funds are new stuff and scarce, most having less than two years) there will be 1-3 Phds, not only in finance of course, responsible for strategies, models, checking pricing methods of the desks or sometimes even risk manag...
Plus they are well valued on many kinds of consultancy jobs - specially since there are so little finance Phds in our country. Not to mention you can always teach as a part time job, while keeping your daily job on industry. Those are my arguments to consider staying in your course.

Having said that, Id like to mention that I had that chance to work with a guy from Chicago GSB, who started a Phd but left around the 3rd year. He came back to become head of quant desk in a large Inv. bank. His potential to apply theoretical work seemed really impressive and broad, and so did his performance. Is this something you would like to do? trading desk, applied financial modeling (the kind u find on books on quant trading strategies) and asset pricing (empirical, behavioural, technical or whatever "al" you are surely more familiar with tham I am). Do you think you have (or will have after the courses u mentioned) enough background to apply this into a real trading desk - strictly quant or strictly fundamental - despite your lack of knowledge regarding the financial industry??
If so, Id advise you to start making contacts, asking for friends AND professors help (if you have not done so yet) and sending your resume now! If not, you might give an extra chance to consider if overall, the course you are taking is really that esoteric - i will never forget my best friend describing me the daily meeting at the asset man. of a large US bank subsiadiary in Sao Paulo: The head of research, a US phd, would start by asking how did all traders felt on that day, how have their weekends been, family relations, etc... I wonder what the hell did that guy learned on his grad courses.. Again, you know it better that I do.

Hope to have helped...
Actually, if you could check my recent begun thread below, itd be great...

http://www.urch.com/forums/phd-busin...tion-list.html (Suggestion on schools to add on application list)

shootermcgavin7 · 12-14-2007, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stylz123

I pretty much started my phd straight from undergrad. I worked for about 8 months at an engineering company after undergrad but left the job to start my program.

My goal right now is to get into asset management. I'm not sure how much a phd will help with that, other than to signal me as a hardworker. Other than that, the skills I'm learning here don't seem like they'd translate over that well. I plan to take a couple of econometric classes next semester which I think woudl help me in industry (as well as apply to asset management firms).

Sticking around for another 2.5-3 years to get a phd seems like a waste to me if my end goal isn't to go into academia anyway. I'm just worried that I may have a tough time finding a job. I'm really not too familiar with the finance industry to know what kind of chances I have.

If you're at a top 10 school and you really want to work at the top-tiers of the industry, your best bets are:

-) Finish your Finance PhD (in either asset pricing or investments). Regardless of how abstract you feel the core is; it is one of the few fields where academia and business frequently cross.

-) Transfer into the Finance MBA program at your existing school. This might or might not be a particularly good idea, depending on how your finances are.

-) Do a Physics PhD.

asa_sl · 12-16-2007, 02:43 PM

drop out with a MA and start cfa program while doing a finance job.

apropos · 12-16-2007, 10:18 PM

stylz, if you like more applied kind of work, perhaps you could take some courses at the math and statistics departments in mathematical finance, stochastic processes, PDEs, etc. This could help you get a job in quantitative trading. Another interesting applied area is financial econometrics.

Zay60 · 12-21-2007, 04:10 PM

I'm completing a master's in applied economics, but would like to know how relevant this degree is in getting into the field of investment banking (front, middle, back office), hedge funds, private equity...basically I'm looking to work on Wall Street or a similiar field....I've noticed that alot of graduate economics programs don't offer computer language courses i.e. SQL, Visual Basics, Java, C++

I have the option of taking the above courses:
introduction to programming using Java,
Corporate Real Estate, or
Commercial Lease Analysis

And would like to know which courses are relevant, Do alot of Quantitative Analysts need program know programming languages?

chartreuse · 01-16-2008, 02:25 PM

I'd transfer into a Masters in Finance Program and then land a job at the asset management firm. There, I would work on getting a CFA and if necessary, go for an MBA. Best of luck!

12-11-2007, 06:26 AM	#1 (permalink)
stylz123 Trying to make mom and pop proud Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 5	Leaving Finance PhD Program for Industry I am currently a 2nd year student at a top 10 finance phd program. Through the course of the past couple years I've realized that a PhD is probably not for me. I've been finding the research far too esoteric and it seems that the research papers written are not used in industry at all. So lately I have been contemplating leaving with my Masters and working in industry, since I am far more attracted to applicable finance. Would it help to have any other qualifications (MFE, MBA, CFA, etc.) or would I have a good chance of landing a job (I'm interested in asset management). In addition, how much weight does industry put on graduate course grades, GPA, etc?

12-13-2007, 07:01 PM	#5 (permalink)
lcappa Trying to make mom and pop proud Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 13	Im from Brazil, so my views are reflected considering what Ive learned from 3 years experience in our asset man. and trading desks - which I am aware to be less technical than in the US, plus some ocasional contact with acquaintances working in the US. Even here, a growing percentage of trading departments in a leading instituion have at least one Phd or eventually a master with much work in applied methods. On a quantitative department (again, even here, a less developed market, where exclusive quant funds are new stuff and scarce, most having less than two years) there will be 1-3 Phds, not only in finance of course, responsible for strategies, models, checking pricing methods of the desks or sometimes even risk manag... Plus they are well valued on many kinds of consultancy jobs - specially since there are so little finance Phds in our country. Not to mention you can always teach as a part time job, while keeping your daily job on industry. Those are my arguments to consider staying in your course. Having said that, Id like to mention that I had that chance to work with a guy from Chicago GSB, who started a Phd but left around the 3rd year. He came back to become head of quant desk in a large Inv. bank. His potential to apply theoretical work seemed really impressive and broad, and so did his performance. Is this something you would like to do? trading desk, applied financial modeling (the kind u find on books on quant trading strategies) and asset pricing (empirical, behavioural, technical or whatever "al" you are surely more familiar with tham I am). Do you think you have (or will have after the courses u mentioned) enough background to apply this into a real trading desk - strictly quant or strictly fundamental - despite your lack of knowledge regarding the financial industry?? If so, Id advise you to start making contacts, asking for friends AND professors help (if you have not done so yet) and sending your resume now! If not, you might give an extra chance to consider if overall, the course you are taking is really that esoteric - i will never forget my best friend describing me the daily meeting at the asset man. of a large US bank subsiadiary in Sao Paulo: The head of research, a US phd, would start by asking how did all traders felt on that day, how have their weekends been, family relations, etc... I wonder what the hell did that guy learned on his grad courses.. Again, you know it better that I do. Hope to have helped... Actually, if you could check my recent begun thread below, itd be great... http://www.urch.com/forums/phd-busin...tion-list.html (Suggestion on schools to add on application list) Last edited by lcappa : 12-13-2007 at 09:43 PM.

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12-11-2007, 02:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ancalagon The Black TestMagic Guru-in-Training Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Kolkata, India Posts: 971	What program are you in? I don't think that the industry much cares about your grades as long as you show them productivity...

12-13-2007, 03:47 AM	#3 (permalink)
shootermcgavin7 Within my grasp! Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 498	A question and a point: Q) Do you have any prior work experience? P) If your goal is to work for a hedge fund or an Ibank, you might be better off sticking it out a couple of more years and then go into industry with your PhD; or alternatively try to pick up enough classes to leave with a master's in mathematical risk management or something along those lines.

12-13-2007, 05:49 PM	#4 (permalink)
stylz123 Trying to make mom and pop proud Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 5	I pretty much started my phd straight from undergrad. I worked for about 8 months at an engineering company after undergrad but left the job to start my program. My goal right now is to get into asset management. I'm not sure how much a phd will help with that, other than to signal me as a hardworker. Other than that, the skills I'm learning here don't seem like they'd translate over that well. I plan to take a couple of econometric classes next semester which I think woudl help me in industry (as well as apply to asset management firms). Sticking around for another 2.5-3 years to get a phd seems like a waste to me if my end goal isn't to go into academia anyway. I'm just worried that I may have a tough time finding a job. I'm really not too familiar with the finance industry to know what kind of chances I have.

12-16-2007, 02:43 PM	#7 (permalink)
asa_sl Within my grasp! Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 140	drop out with a MA and start cfa program while doing a finance job.

12-16-2007, 10:18 PM	#8 (permalink)
apropos TestMagic Guru-in-Training Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 766	stylz, if you like more applied kind of work, perhaps you could take some courses at the math and statistics departments in mathematical finance, stochastic processes, PDEs, etc. This could help you get a job in quantitative trading. Another interesting applied area is financial econometrics.

12-21-2007, 04:10 PM	#9 (permalink)
Zay60 Trying to make mom and pop proud Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 8	I'm completing a master's in applied economics, but would like to know how relevant this degree is in getting into the field of investment banking (front, middle, back office), hedge funds, private equity...basically I'm looking to work on Wall Street or a similiar field....I've noticed that alot of graduate economics programs don't offer computer language courses i.e. SQL, Visual Basics, Java, C++ I have the option of taking the above courses: introduction to programming using Java, Corporate Real Estate, or Commercial Lease Analysis And would like to know which courses are relevant, Do alot of Quantitative Analysts need program know programming languages?

01-16-2008, 02:25 PM	#10 (permalink)
chartreuse At Crossroads Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 56	I'd transfer into a Masters in Finance Program and then land a job at the asset management firm. There, I would work on getting a CFA and if necessary, go for an MBA. Best of luck!

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