Suggestion on schools to add on application list

[lcappa]

Hy,
recently I started a thread related to applying for a finance Phd now or waiting till next year to improve my profile. Together with your help, I decided to apply now, but with an overall less ambitious application pool.
Here is my profile:
PROFILE:
Type of Undergrad: Bs in Economics (top university in the country)
Undergrad GPA: 6.6/10 (unimpressive, but not as bad as it looks, top 5 students out of 200 would have 8.0-8.3/10)
Type of Grad: Professional Masters in Economics and Finance (top business school)
Grad GPA: Expected 7.0-7.5/10. Thesis due april 2008.
GRE: 800Q - 540V 5.0AW (although 1st attempt with 690 – 490 – 4.0, one month before)
Math Courses: 2 semesters of calculus, 1 of linear algebra, (median grades), 5 sem. of statistics/econometrics (median)
Econ Courses: 2 years of micro and 2,5 on macroeconomic theory (median grades) plus 1 semester each at the masters (top grades).
Finance Courses: 1 semester each of: finance, fixed income, derivatives (above median) plus 1 semester of asset pricing along with financial econometrics at the masters (above average).
Letters of Recommendation: Very good comments from top financial econometrist in the country (LSE), plus two good economics professors from the masters (Yale and Northwestern – program Coordinator).
Research Experience: NONE
Teaching Experience: NONE
Job Experience: 2,5 years experience as trainee on Brazil´s largest Investment Bank, (Treasury, Economic Department and Sales), plus 3 months as fixed income fund manager - brief but mentionable, since I actually quit when I realized I wanted to focus on empirical research. 26 years old by March 08.
The new set of schools I intend to apply is:
Vanderbilt
Emory
Maryland
Boston College
Washington St Louis
Tilburg University
Amsterdam U.
Carnegie Mellon University
Stockholm University
Madison WI

(While I have gave up applying this year to LSE, Duke, Kellogg, Columbia, Cornell, Yale, Purdue, Michigan Ann Arbor, and Rochester, among others).

Keeping in mind my lack of academic excellence, research experience, no GMAT (and the fact that I have about a week to send the US applications), what is your assessment on my odds on this set? Being my main interests financial econometrics and asset pricing (esp. dynamic models and microstructure), would you advise me to drop/add any University on the list?

Thanks a lot!

[stylz123]

Your GRE verbal score is relatively low, however Finance PhD programs place most of the weight on the analytical score, of which an 800 is excellent (although very common). GMAT would be better to distinguish your analytical scores as the variance in math is a lot higher than on the GRE.

Your work experience will speak well for you. Why not add some top schools to your list (some of the ones you gave up applying to). The marginal cost to applying to additional schools is essentially nil since the same essays, recommendations, etc. can be used. Your math/econometric background will make you an attractive candidate. I think you should have a fairly good chance in getting into one of the schools in your list. In my opinion, I think you should take a stab at applying to some top tier schools too. Can't hurt.

[doubtful]

we will apply almost to the same panel of schools. I have just a safe-option plan.

[lcappa]

Originally Posted by stylz123

Your GRE verbal score is relatively low, however Finance PhD programs place most of the weight on the analytical score, of which an 800 is excellent (although very common). GMAT would be better to distinguish your analytical scores as the variance in math is a lot higher than on the GRE.

Your work experience will speak well for you. Why not add some top schools to your list (some of the ones you gave up applying to). The marginal cost to applying to additional schools is essentially nil since the same essays, recommendations, etc. can be used. Your math/econometric background will make you an attractive candidate. I think you should have a fairly good chance in getting into one of the schools in your list. In my opinion, I think you should take a stab at applying to some top tier schools too. Can't hurt.

I agree with you that i could at least stand a chance at some of the top schools, specially those where my recoms come from (northwestern, LSE, yale)... the lack of GMAT hurts a lot more than the verbal GRE... this is actually quite good for a brazilian (I got friends accepted at economics at LSE, Brown and Pennsylvania with less than that; without the GMAT I coulndt even apply to some of my choices). However, (as I discussed it in the other thread) most professors told me that applying this year would lower my chances for an eventual reapp, so thats why Im leaving the cream for next year's application, after taking the GMAT (of course, in case I get rejected now). so basically it CAN hurt to apply to those... But it is a good point that I could pick just a couple of the top schools and see what happens.

Thanks a lot.

[lcappa]

Originally Posted by doubtful

we will apply almost to the same panel of schools. I have just a safe-option plan.

Good!! but could you share some thoughts on what you might have heard on how tough it is to get into those with my profile? and specially, considering my interest on microstrucure and empirical methods/asset pricing... do you have any suggestions of good schools at the upper mid range I might have not considered?? Oh, and important.. I cant afford to apply to many schools... at most 5 in the US, but because Im aware I may have to reapply next year, Im not including any safety schools.. Im actually more inclined to try out a coulple of top schools as I wrote on the other reply!

So far Im coming down to this list for the US:
Vanderbilt
Emory
Illinois U.C.
Boston College
Madison WI
and maybe Cornell or Kellogg

some of these have deadlines on 31-dec - 4-jan... Im sure I can submit the online apps and send materials on due time.. however, Im not at all sure whether GRE and toefl results would be reach the departments on time. some of the schools dont state it clearly if paper materials must be submitted or RECEIVED by the deadline... any thoughts on that??
Thanks a lot and good of luck!!!

[bauble]

Originally Posted by lcappa

IHowever, (as I discussed it in the other thread) most professors told me that applying this year would lower my chances for an eventual reapp

You sure about that? There are usually a hundred, maybe 200 apps for finance depts (or more). Why do your profs think they'd remember a given app, unless it was very good (in which case your chances are good, and it likely would not hurt you to reapply if you can beef up the app) or very bad. In the latter case, you should probably look for another line of work .

[lcappa]

Originally Posted by bauble

You sure about that? There are usually a hundred, maybe 200 apps for finance depts (or more). Why do your profs think they'd remember a given app, unless it was very good (in which case your chances are good, and it likely would not hurt you to reapply if you can beef up the app) or very bad. In the latter case, you should probably look for another line of work .

What you said is SO in line with my oppinion... however, Im just repeating what some profs told me in clear words.. one of them is from Yale (this one particularly stated that in case I apply and get reject, reapp is a complete waste of time, and I should wait till next year since Ill have graduated from the masters - this guy is a great reference, a top brazilian macroeconomist, I would stand good chances in Yale next year I guess), the other from Chicago, so I cant just go ahead and deny the fact that my profile is not bad, but considering how high standards most finance phd applicants are and the fact (that I stressed on my other thread) that I can much improve my profile next year, maybe they are right. To keep to facts, I remember seeing just one school ( I think Kellogg) stating that reapplications are useless unless you really enhanced your courses and tests, and just one stating that reapps are well seen if you came close on the previous year (cant remember which though..)

Last, on the other hand, my thesis advisor keeps telling I should apply to all this year and **** off... but to be honest I ended up losing many deadlines (many on this coming saturday!!!) already on my hesitation... so Im focsuing on the set I proposed on the post above.
As my top choices have really close deadlines (circa jan 3rd), does anyone have an insight or experience on whether the mentioned schools stated deadline concerns the online registration and sending paper stuff (Ill use fast post office services) or all documentation has to arrive there before the deadline? To make precise, I can have the LoRs, transcripts and SoP sent by next friday or sooner... but GRE and TOEFL might arrive only next year. Cornell for example states that you have to submit online till dec 15, but the docs may arrive there up to jan 7th.. other schools are not that clear.

Thanks a lot bauble, you had a great point!

[desimba]

Generally most schools are OK if you have taken the GRE by the time you apply such that the scores arrive within 2 weeks of the deadline. I remember having spoken with the Graduate Admissions Officer at UCLA and she said that it is fine if scores are received by January 31st even though the deadline is January 7th or so. I would suspect that the same is true of a lot of other schools as well.

[lcappa]

Great to hear.. I actually took the test 3 weeks ago... but I am still to order the additional reports for the other schools (I gave up applying to the ones I designated on test day).

Thanks a lot desimba!

[bauble]

Originally Posted by lcappa

What you said is SO in line with my oppinion... however, Im just repeating what some profs told me in clear words.. one of them is from Yale (this one particularly stated that in case I apply and get reject, reapp is a complete waste of time, and I should wait till next year since Ill have graduated from the masters - this guy is a great reference, a top brazilian macroeconomist, I would stand good chances in Yale next year I guess), the other from Chicago, so I cant just go ahead and deny the fact that my profile is not bad, but considering how high standards most finance phd applicants are and the fact (that I stressed on my other thread) that I can much improve my profile next year, maybe they are right. To keep to facts, I remember seeing just one school ( I think Kellogg) stating that reapplications are useless unless you really enhanced your courses and tests, and just one stating that reapps are well seen if you came close on the previous year (cant remember which though..)

Last, on the other hand, my thesis advisor keeps telling I should apply to all this year and **** off... but to be honest I ended up losing many deadlines (many on this coming saturday!!!) already on my hesitation... so Im focsuing on the set I proposed on the post above.
As my top choices have really close deadlines (circa jan 3rd), does anyone have an insight or experience on whether the mentioned schools stated deadline concerns the online registration and sending paper stuff (Ill use fast post office services) or all documentation has to arrive there before the deadline? To make precise, I can have the LoRs, transcripts and SoP sent by next friday or sooner... but GRE and TOEFL might arrive only next year. Cornell for example states that you have to submit online till dec 15, but the docs may arrive there up to jan 7th.. other schools are not that clear.

Thanks a lot bauble, you had a great point!

Well, faculty at good schools are quite smart, so there are invariably some with near photographic memories (I know one). But this isn't really my opinion. A prof told me that he didn't remember old apps, and he didn't think his colleagues generally did either. Keep in mind that prof mindshare has a long pecking order: senior colleagues, junior colleagues, their pets, senior phd students, their stamp collection, junior phd students, phd applicants...

To answer your deadline question, LoRs and SoP need to be on time for sure. Transcripts/test scores usually don't need to be in that soon. Some departments begin reading the apps (incl sop and lor) very quickly and will contact their top choices in Jan or Feb.