What are my chances? Any other engineering undergrads?

[Texcards]

PROFILE:
Type of Undergrad: B.S. Mechanical Engineering, Minor Economics at Texas A&M (top 15 engineering, top 40 economics)
Undergrad GPA: 3.314 (should be closer to 3.4 after fall sem) (3.65 Math, 4.0 Econ)
Type of Grad: None
Grad GPA: N/A
GRE: 800Q, 550V, 4.0AW
Note: My school does not use + or - system; A, B, C, D, F only
Math Courses: Calc I (A), II (B), III (A), Differential Equations (B), Linear Algebra (A), Mathematical Probability and Statistics (A)
Econ Courses (PhD-level): None
Econ Courses (undergrad-level): Micro (A) and Macro (A) theory, Econometrics (A)
Other Courses: Lots of engineering in which I did a lot of math
Letters of Recommendation: 2 not well known econ professors but excelled in their classes (top 1 or 2 out of class size of 40), 1 engr professor that I went on study abroad trip with
Research Experience: None
Teaching Experience: None
Research Interests: Econometrics, International Trade, Labor
SOP: Working on it
Concerns: Not enough math/econ/stat classes, low overall GPA, low analytical writing, no research/TA experience
Other:
Applying to: Toronto, UBC, Texas A&M, UT-Austin, Maryland, UC-SD, UC-SB, Boston College, Boston U

Also Considering: USC, WUSTL, Illinois, Purdue, Ohio State, Missouri, Georgia

I know I am in a unique situation, I have only seen a couple engineering majors and none that were mechanical on here. I really have no idea if it is a plus or not. I'm concerned about my low GPA, and no offense to econ majors but I think engineering is way more difficult at the undergrad level than econ so I'm hoping admissions committees well recognize that. Any thoughts on having an engineering degree and how admissions committees will view it?

Any thoughts on my current list of schools I'm applying to and my chances?

Also, I was looking for recommendations for some programs ranked outside the top 30 that are up and coming. Anyone know of any good places? Looking at my list right now I only see myself getting into 2 maybe 3 places and I'd like to apply to a couple that I have a good chance of being admitted.

Thanks for any comments!

[jeeves0923]

Originally Posted by Texcards

I'm concerned about my low GPA, and no offense to econ majors but I think engineering is way more difficult at the undergrad level than econ so I'm hoping admissions committees well recognize that. Any thoughts on having an engineering degree and how admissions committees will view it?

No offense taken, but you must consider that you are not applying against people who just did undergrad econ requirements and got As. You are applying against folks who did math majors as well, took PhD Econ courses, PhD math courses. While your work may have been difficult and time consuming as a requirement, many of the people you apply against made their schedules time consuming and difficult by choice to be seen as excellent candidates for econ graduate school. You are applying against some with a lot of research experience as well and letters from econ profs who can assess their potential as economists.

Just because you are an engineer doesn't mean your education was more difficult. It means that the baseline requirements for your degree were more difficult. You aren't dealing with the bottom of the distribution anymore...

That being said, there is a gentleman at Princeton Econ who went to my undergrad. His undergrad majors were Mechanical Engineering, Philosophy and Political Science. Of course, his GPA was in excess of 3.95 and he had taken a lot of econ courses.

[italos]

Originally Posted by jeeves0923

..

That being said, there is a gentleman at Princeton Econ who went to my undergrad. His undergrad majors were Mechanical Engineering, Philosophy and Political Science. Of course, his GPA was in excess of 3.95 and he had taken a lot of econ courses.

I know the case now second year at Princeton of a foreigner who went with a BA in Engineering but with an MA in economics.Are you considering a masters?

[Texcards]

Originally Posted by italos

I know the case now second year at Princeton of a foreigner who went with a BA in Engineering but with an MA in economics.Are you considering a masters?

I am, I know Boston U, UBC, and Toronto do an MA. Do you have any other recommendations of places with solid MA programs I should look into?

Originally Posted by jeeves0923

No offense taken, but you must consider that you are not applying against people who just did undergrad econ requirements and got As. You are applying against folks who did math majors as well, took PhD Econ courses, PhD math courses. While your work may have been difficult and time consuming as a requirement, many of the people you apply against made their schedules time consuming and difficult by choice to be seen as excellent candidates for econ graduate school. You are applying against some with a lot of research experience as well and letters from econ profs who can assess their potential as economists.

Just because you are an engineer doesn't mean your education was more difficult. It means that the baseline requirements for your degree were more difficult. You aren't dealing with the bottom of the distribution anymore...

That being said, there is a gentleman at Princeton Econ who went to my undergrad. His undergrad majors were Mechanical Engineering, Philosophy and Political Science. Of course, his GPA was in excess of 3.95 and he had taken a lot of econ courses.

That's fair, I think my comment came off as pretentious when I didn't intend for it to. I'm really just basing that comment on comparing the few econ classes I've taken versus my engineering ones which you're right isn't taking into account the whole picture. I realize I'm applying against the best of the best, which is why I'm trying to be realistic and target the top 10-40 range and a few outside of that since i don't have a stellar GPA. The real point of my post was to get any thoughts on my chances of the schools I listed and any others that would be worth looking into.

[italos]

Originally Posted by Texcards

I am, I know Boston U, UBC, and Toronto do an MA. Do you have any other recommendations of places with solid MA programs I should look into?

Are you thinking in moving in Europe for one year?If yes then standard reconsiderations are UPF ,Toulouse, Tilburgh..UCL perhaps(!) and many other options.Check the masters threads!

[Texcards]

Originally Posted by italos

Are you thinking in moving in Europe for one year?If yes then standard reconsiderations are UPF ,Toulouse, Tilburgh..UCL perhaps(!) and many other options.Check the masters threads!

Obviously I would be fine at UCL, but would I be able to attend these universities if the only language I speak is English? Also, how likely is it that I would receive some form of financial aid from these universities if I will only be there for 1 year?

[tangsiuje]

Obviously I would be fine at UCL, but would I be able to attend these universities if the only language I speak is English? Also, how likely is it that I would receive some form of financial aid from these universities if I will only be there for 1 year?

Those universities teach in English. Some of them give scholarships, some have very low tuition because they're heavily subsidized.

You may want to keep in mind that the type of maths done in engineering is quite different from the type of maths required for economics: having done a lot of applied maths doesn't necessarily help that much for writing up analytical proofs. With regard to GPA, I think the last two years will be the most important, so if there's an improving trend, that could offset the low overall score.

Since you seemed to be thinking about Toronto, I might as well mention that there are a number of engineering majors / economics minors in the MA program here. Funding is relatively good if you're in the PhD stream (otherwise it's pretty bad if you have to pay international fees). They sometimes let people with somewhat lower GPA into the MA program based on excellent GRE scores (second chance type thing, I think?).

[JasonEcon]

I was in a somewhat similar situation to you two years ago, albeit I had also been working (in a non-Econ field) for a few years. I decided to get a Master's in Econ in the US while also taking more theoretical math. I'm now applying to Ph D programs this fall, and my profile is in the Roll Call 2009 thread.

In my opinion, I'd be surprised if you are able to get in anywhere Top 40, although if you were willing to go a bit lower you could probably get in to a couple places. I suggest applying to a few of your lower ranked Ph D programs and apply to some Master's programs as safeties. Most of this forum seems to frown on US terminal masters programs, but given my desire to go to somewhere in the 20 - 40 range, I think it will turn out well for me.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by jeeves0923

That being said, there is a gentleman at Princeton Econ who went to my undergrad. His undergrad majors were Mechanical Engineering, Philosophy and Political Science. Of course, his GPA was in excess of 3.95 and he had taken a lot of econ courses.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

We should have a scavenger hunt where we all scour the internet looking at econ PhD students' CVs to try to find the most unrelated majors to econ. For instance, the first person to find, say, 2 econ PhD students with any of the following majors wins a prize:

Classics
Theater
Dance
Gender Studies
Forestry
Office Automation
Jazz
Viticulture and Enology
Office Automation

[YoungEconomist]

You have a decent profile. If you worked on some stuff I think you could probably have a solid profile (one in which you'll have a real solid shot at getting some admits in the 10 - 40 range).

First potential concern, not enough econ. Have you really only taken 3 econ classes? Also, you didn't specify whether you were talking about intro or intermediate micro/macro. You'll need up to the intermediate level as it's a prereq. The lack of econ classes may also make it more difficult for you to find letter writers from econ (which isn't always a problem, do some searches as the topic has come up numerous times).

Second potential concern, your engineering grades. You didn't list your engineering grades. If they are not that solid, this may pose a problem for you. I know it seems unfair, seeing as how many of us haven't had to take those classes, but adcoms may use them as a signal. If your engineering grades are poor, adcoms may think "he/she stuggles with applying mathematics in more advanced situations."

Third potential concern, your lack of math/stat courses. If you find the time it would really help your profile to take a few more. I don't know the level of your prob/stats class, but if it's low you should consider taking calc based prob/stats. You should take an intro to proofs type course. Also, real analysis would be a great addition to your profile (especially if you get an A in the course).

P.S. Don't worry, I doubt any of us were offended by your comment. And jeeves reply on the topic is spot on. You're not competing with folks who did well in (just) econ. In fact, adcoms won't even take students with a 4.0 as an econ major seriously, unless they have some other aspects of their profile as well (such as strong math/stat grades, research experience, etc).