U. Chicago

[jlist]

Hi Gang: I owe you a report, and I apologize for being tardy this year. I know how you all must be feeling. I am teaching an extra class this year, and with all of the great files this has been an incredibly busy time for me. In any event, here goes:

Well, another year, another shockingly great set of files. Rather than repeat what I said the last two years, I invite you all to scan those posts in my summary sheet (they are very similar to one another). Everything from those applies, and then some this year.

Let me be clear: the applicant pool is deeper and stronger at every one of the important deciles this year compared to the previous two years that I have done admissions and aid. Add to this the fact that our funding here at UC is much tighter than in past years--even though we argued for that not to happen--and I am getting the feeling that this year will go down as one of the most difficult for candidates in years. Maybe ever.

I very much feel for this group of applicants because many of you can be stars; I know that, and can see it in your portfolios. We cannot even allow all of the folks into our program who we all agree are great bets to be stars.

With that, I am at a loss to provide advice. Besides saying that I am sorry.

A large part of me says that you should follow your dreams of obtaining a PhD now; take what you can get, work hard, be creative, and do stellar research and you will end up where you belong. A small part of me would like to whisper to some of you--hold out, maybe take a good RA position somewhere and try again next year.

I would only suggest that to some, however, and would need to look at it on a case-by-case basis. This is because underplacement now can really stick with you for some time. You can overcome that feature, but it is difficult because you will have to give up having a real life for 10 years or so to make a mark and move up (if that is indeed what you desire).

I can relate a bit with you--when I sent 150 applications to schools when I went on the market as a freshly minted Phd I received only 2 interview requests. Yes, 2. One by one I read 148 letters from schools letting me know that I was not even good enough to make their final 15, 20, 30, or 40 list.

That hurt, and the sting might be similar to what many of you are feeling right now or will feel shortly. I know that many such decision letters will suggest to you that you are not fit to be an economist. Just remember, they told me the same thing 13 years ago. Use it to your advantage. Work harder, take more chances, strive for more.

In the end, things will work out. I will try to be back more often.

Best,
John

[economics]

Welcome back, John!

Thanks a lot - I think your words will be well received in this forum, where many people are freaking out - a symptom of this year's painful admission season.

Thanks for checking in, and, as you well know, we always appreciate your input!

[economics]

i also agree that this year's competitiveness comes with a problem:

if you end up *without* a spot or without a "dream spot", we cannot say, this year, whether it's because you can't cut it or because this year is just too difficult... so many people will think they can cut it (thinking it's just the year), and spend a year doing RA work and boost their formal profile, but they may be disappointed again next year.

tough choice! -- maybe the only solution is honest and frank expert advice, on a case-by-case basis... which this forum may be able to provide (if you don't trust your own faculty). so we should all be frank to each other, especially this year.

[Nausica]

I'm just thinking, things must be the same as we finish our PhD and start looking for jobs:

All the candidates are stronger and the market then won't boost since the economy gets better and less people want a graduate study......

It seems this situation really sticks for a long time...

[economics]

hm... but those people that the business/financial environment threw into the academic market won't look for academic jobs with the same motivation as we are?

in fact, as many programs have to cut their PhD numbers NOW (less supply in the future) and have to DELAY HIRING JUNIOR FACULTY (which will fuel DEMAND), we'll actually end up with an EASIER job market!!!!!!

lucky we!

[Canuckonomist]

Thanks, John.

I was planning on taking a break from the forum until some more good news hopefully rolled in, but I'm going to take exception to that rule to post a response here. You should print that off as the rejection letter to any failed applicants at UChicago this year. With all sincerity, that would be the best rejection letter I would ever receive, especially given that it passes on such sage advice.

I figure now that with the economy being the way it is, and with my belief that the whole process will be even more competitive next year, that I will take what ever comes to me. On a personal level, I think I am about ready to move on from where I am; I have done a number of research assistantships here, as well as exhausted all the university has to offer in my fields of interest. With luck, I'll see one more admit in the coming weeks (any 1 of the 10, and I'll definitely make do,) and we'll see what comes from that.

I can't say I'm unhappy with my choice to apply to Chicago, even though I doubt relatively strongly that I was one of the "potential stars" you decided to admit. While I probably should have re-focused some of my reach applications further down the ranks, I'm quite happy with having probed the limits, even in such a difficult year.

Thanks again for keeping us all informed. I really appreciate it, as it makes this whole processes much easier. (On that note, I suppose then it's likely that my good friend who was admitted to Chicago's mathematics Ph.D program will have to attend Chicago alone!)

Cheers,

Canuck

[Thesus]

I always feel like I should stop mucking around on the internet and grind a couple more hours into studying after reading these. Thanks for your time.

[Golden Rule]

Thanks for the update.

hm... but those people that the business/financial environment threw into the academic market won't look for academic jobs with the same motivation as we are?

I'm not sure that's realistic. It's more a matter of some intelligent people realizing that either private sector or nonprofit opportunities aren't as lucrative as they might have believed a year ago, and find that academia offers more security.

I'm not sure there's any guarantee next year will be better. People will have one more year to plan ahead. Those finance jobs are not coming back. There's a good chance we'll still be in recession next fall when these decisions are made.

I'd have expected a more competitive applicant pool this year anyway, as economics has been an increasingly popular undergraduate major as of late, and there's better information available to potential grad school applicants at a younger age now. I suspect John would still be saying this was the best applicant pool ever even in the counterfactual without the financial crisis, but I can believe that the financial crisis boosted applicant quality beyond the trend increase I had expected.

[ICECOLDECON]

Dr. List

Thank you for the post....made me feel better. I agree completely with Canuck that it would make for a great rejection letter.

[rvalchev]

I would like to join everybody in thanking you for the post Dr. List.

Also, I think we all need to learn how to handle adversity and rejection sooner or later. Life's not always good and fair and actually I consider it an advantage that I am coming out of undergrad in this particular year. Instead of getting into a school that might be a little too high for me, I could end up in one just right or a little below. And also I like fighting from an underdog position. If nobody expects big things from you, then once you deliver it's all the more impressive. It just my but is also the way I am staying surprisingly (to myself) sane for the past few weeks.