Railroadme Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Every ranking I have looked at have the U at the bottom of the list. I know its a Heterodox school----but is it better to just go for some other degree at a better school than to get their PhD in Economics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wind up bird Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Better for what? Describe your ideal outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railroadme Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 Better for what? Describe your ideal outcome. Well I have Vet Preference when it comes to federal jobs. I would like to work in a social research position---i.e. govt programs like TANF, WIC, Education etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wind up bird Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Hmm. If you are not really attached to the label of being an economist, then you might want to shoot for the 'best' program you can get into, even if that field is not technically economics. Your research interests sound inherently interdisciplinary so I don't know if it's crucial you get training in economics. Your quantitative skills might also be comparatively more desirable in a field where such training is less common. But this is speculation. Perhaps you should contact someone (through your professors if you're not comfortable cold-calling) in a position you'd like to have and ask them what you'd need to get hired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmoney Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 If you are into TANF and WIC check out labor econ rankings for Education check out Public Choice and Public Econ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICECOLDECON Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I dont think Utah would be the best route to your desired outcome. How about considering PhD public policy programs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like_it_is_Show_Biz Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Is the University of Utah a waste? um, Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railroadme Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 Hmm. If you are not really attached to the label of being an economist, then you might want to shoot for the 'best' program you can get into, even if that field is not technically economics. Your research interests sound inherently interdisciplinary so I don't know if it's crucial you get training in economics. Your quantitative skills might also be comparatively more desirable in a field where such training is less common. But this is speculation. Perhaps you should contact someone (through your professors if you're not comfortable cold-calling) in a position you'd like to have and ask them what you'd need to get hired. I will admit---I like the label Economist...LOL. I'm into Bio-Ethics, Birth-Control, and Inadequate Parenting. One of my professors said he thinks Economics is the most useful. However, as I read on, most people feel Economics is no good unless its a top tier school. I was just thinking my vets pref would offset the school---the Vet Pref is utilized not only for Federal jobs, but also State---which would include State Universities. Thank you by the way for your responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evy031 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 It seems like a "top school" might have the best published professors- but maybe not the most intelligent and CERTAINLY not always the best teachers. It seems like the best route to take if you're considering applying to a program that is "a waste" according to all the rankings is to go there, talk to the professors and sit in on a class or two. Then you'll know. Don't write it off because of rankings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICECOLDECON Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Id say go to the lowest ranked orthodox PhD program b4 Utah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railroadme Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 It seems like a "top school" might have the best published professors- but maybe not the most intelligent and CERTAINLY not always the best teachers. It seems like the best route to take if you're considering applying to a program that is "a waste" according to all the rankings is to go there, talk to the professors and sit in on a class or two. Then you'll know. Don't write it off because of rankings. I was stationed in Utah with the Air Force and have bought a house in Utah. I like to ski and have my kids here...seems like a waste not to apply---and if I were accepted to uproot everything may be the bigger waste. Thanks for your response-I am sure I will apply. Can anyone explain why the U is considered so bad? Besides professors being published? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andronicus Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Can anyone explain why the U is considered so bad? Besides professors being published? I'm sure it is at least partially because Utah is a heterodox program. This fact impacts multiple factors that determine rankings: quality of faculty attracted, professors' publications, quality of graduate students attracted, and placements. I'm not saying that faculty and/or students there are necessarily poor quality, but they are drawn from a more limited pool of people sympathetic (or at least not strongly opposed) to their Marxian paradigm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathMathMath Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 If your big concern is getting a government job, why don't you ask University of Utah about their placements? You could also look into contacting some government departments at which you'd like to work, ask them what level of University they typically recruit from, and ask them how much the veterans' preference would help you if you go to a lower-ranked University. If the University of Utah applicants typically place into jobs you'd be happy to work in and you think you'd enjoy their program, then I think you should apply. Also I believe that there is an economic sociology field within sociology. That might be a good match for your interests as well. If the main reason you want to do an Econ PhD is for the title, that might not really be the best of reasons for doing the PhD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singmeat Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I thought U of Utah had both and wasnt super heterodox, but offered some. ...that's why I applied. :| Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obsi Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 ^^Singmeat, they are both indeed. The website says students can take mainstream or heterodox courses. Btw E.K. Hunt at Utah is a very good professor. His book, History of Economic Thought was very good in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singmeat Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 ^^Singmeat, they are both indeed. The website says students can take mainstream or heterodox courses. Btw E.K. Hunt at Utah is a very good professor. His book, History of Economic Thought was very good in my opinion. Yeah, but if the STIGMA later is that "ill be heterodox" or if it will severely limit career options vs. clemson or kentucky or UT dallas or U new Mex or Kansas then that will be a factor (although I have no idea what those schools are going to do with funding etc). Is E.K. Hunt mainstream? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like_it_is_Show_Biz Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I thought U of Utah had both and wasnt super heterodox, but offered some.:| This is how they sell their program: "Utah is Different" "Do you feel that there should be more to Economics than second order conditions of constrained optima or intergenerational planning with infinite time horizons? Would you also like to examine economic theory from the perspective of the philosophy of science? Are you fascinated by the problems of the Third World, post-Keynesian macroeconomics, Marxian economics, ecological economics, the economics of gender, or Bayesian econometrics? " Given that they are likely to understate exactly how much of the program is heterodox, I think the statement tells you to expect Marxist ideas to be a big part of what you learn at Utah. If this is not what you want, you should not go there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like_it_is_Show_Biz Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 As for Hunt's Book, History of Economic Thought: A Critical Perspective, It should really be titled History of Economic Thought: A Marxian Perspective. If this is your thing, then Utah is for you. If not, go anywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singmeat Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 expect Marxist ideas to be a big part of what you learn at Utah. YouTube - The Price is Right losing horn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obsi Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 singmeat: Kentucky is better anyway. Like it is show biz: I wouldn't go to a heterodox school myself, but the book was interesting. I like reading different ideas even though I don't agree with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singmeat Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 singmeat: Kentucky is better anyway. Like it is show biz: I wouldn't go to a heterodox school myself, but the book was interesting. I like reading different ideas even though I don't agree with them. yeah I really like kentucky for labor econ...just waitlisted for $$ I also agree that it's nice to know other opinions even if you don't agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like_it_is_Show_Biz Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Like it is show biz: I wouldn't go to a heterodox school myself, but the book was interesting. I like reading different ideas even though I don't agree with them. I agree completely. I have read The Comunist Manifesto myself. I even tried to read Das Kapital. But going to a program like Utah is far more than just exposing yourself to this view. I suspect it's hard to get through any program without at least pretending to agree with what is being taught. I actually have read lots about Marxism. I have a well developed and well informed opinion allready. I wouldn't want to have to spend 5 years argueing with the people who are supposed to eventually award me my degree. The other option would be to keep my mouth shut, which I don't want to do either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wind up bird Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Heh, it's kinda funny that they include Bayesian econometrics in with the other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmanisafatman Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Sorry about the negative tone of my post... but Like_it_is_Show_Biz has been setting off my BS detector, so I will be blunt. um, Yes. BS I agree completely. I have read The Comunist Manifesto myself. I even tried to read Das Kapital... I actually have read lots about Marxism. I have a well developed and well informed opinion allready. BS... anyone who cites the 40 or so page Communist Manifesto as 'part' of their well developed exposure to Marx doesn't know what they're talking about. Kapital volumes 1-3 are roughly 3000 pages in total, in addition to many lesser known works. What you have said is akin to citing the spark-notes of Romeo and Juliet as the basis for your well developed and well informed opinion of Shakespeare's literature... Furthermore, if you intend to claim on having read other scholarly works on Marx... you should know that there are quite a few of those as well so you're not likely to have anywhere near a holistic treatment of the subject. But going to a program like Utah is far more than just exposing yourself to this view. I suspect it's hard to get through any program without at least pretending to agree with what is being taught. I wouldn't want to have to spend 5 years argueing with the people who are supposed to eventually award me my degree. The other option would be to keep my mouth shut, which I don't want to do either. Again... not true. Most professors are people too, and probably pretty decent and reasonable human beings at that. They are not going to make you agree with them. Just don't be a jerk about your opinions. Speaking from experience I can say "heterodox" professors seem pretty open to let graduate students pursue dissertations on topics of interest. Remember most them have PhD training in "orthodox" economics, so they probably can be helpful in the fields they worked on in graduate school. Also... looking here University of Utah Economics Courses Economics the generic graduate courses seem pretty generic. Its the second-third year topics that have the non-orthodox "flair" to them. As for the OP, I'd listen to some of the advice that others have posted on this thread. Talk to a professor in the program about your interests, they are the best people to assess how good a fit the program is for you. An aside: I've been seeing more ill-informed advice and negativity on TM recently, and have tried to keep my mouth shut for the sake of promoting a hospitable environment and avoiding long drawn-out arguments in places where perhaps they shouldn't be taking place... But please remember to think before you post.:tup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICECOLDECON Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I would tend to agree with Like......biz. The first year curriculum only includes one course in econometrics/statistics (which, if you want to do policy is something that you should be taking as many courses as possible) and a full year of political economy which is not pretty generic (it also includes a current trends course where they introduce you to feminist, marxist, etc principles). But the most important thing, is that I would imagine that a degree from Utah would come with a horrible stench.....even if you do your best to remain orthodox, I would imagine that your degree would be heavily discounted.... Are you close enough to any other PhD econ programs to be able to commute? Does Utah have a PhD in public policy or some other interdisciplinary field? If you do inquire about more info on the Utah econ dept, the absolute most important thing to do is ask for a complete placement list. It is my guess that students from Utah will have very difficult times getting the jobs you quoted.....but if the list suggests otherwise, then I am wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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