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ilikefreefood · 2009 March 18th, 06:20 AM

Hey all,

So this is what I get for being a lurker; a pile of rejection letters. Basically, I seem to have overshot myself, and I have been rejected to every straight Econ program I have applied to except for Chicago and Cornell from which I have yet to hear (and about which I don't feel especially confident given my 12 rejections at present). However, I have been admitted with a fellowship to the one Applied Economics program to which I applied, and I need to decide whether it makes sense for me to attend this program or to wait it out for another year. I would love to hear the input of some of the more seasoned veterans on the board.

On one hand, there is a fair range of schools to which I did not apply and to which I could apply next year to gain admission. On the other hand, for my interests, attending an applied program could make sense. Additionally, I'm concerned about the how the length of time I've been out of school working in private sector consulting appears on my application. If I wait a year, I could try take another RA job that would look better on my application, or I could potentially take additional math courses (within the confines of what one can do while working as a consultant), but it looks like it's too late for me to apply to most Masters programs.

What do you think? I have posted my profile on the thread, but I will repost it here for your convenience:

PROFILE:
Type of Undergrad: Econ major from a top 5-10 liberal arts college.
Undergrad GPA: 3.73/4, magna cum laude with distinction in major for senior thesis research.
Type of Grad: none
Grad GPA: n/a
GRE: 800Q 640V 5.5AWA
Math Courses: Calc II-III (A,B+), Linear Algebra (Pass), Statistics (A), Mathematical Structures (A-), Real Analysis (B, taken as a non-degree student at a local school this Fall)
Econ Courses: Principles Micro/Macro (A-,A), Intermediate Micro (A) Intermediate Macro (B), Econometrics (B+), pre-thesis seminar (A-), Ag. & Food Econ. (A), Development Econ. (B+), Econ. of Inequality (A), Econ. of Water Policy (B+), British Econ. history (B+)
Other Courses: A pass/fail seminar on game theory, a Poli. Sci. course on agent-based computer modeling (A)
Letters of Recommendation: 3 ECON professors (LAC profs but with Chicago/Stanford Ph.Ds), including my thesis adviser who has previously stated that my thesis was one of the best he's ever advised. Where possible, 1 VP at my Econ. consulting firm with whom I've worked extensively on econometric analyses.
Research Experience: ~3 years as an RA in a major Econ. consulting firm; I specialize in statistical and econometric analysis within my office.
Awards: Thesis award from state Economics association, thesis presentation award from state science association, college fellowship for (non-research) work in development related to microfinance.
Research Interests: Development, environmental/resource economics, urban economics, general applied micro.
statement of purpose: Well-written but fairly standard; mentioned specifically my interest in development and applied micro fields.
Other Concerns: Didn't anticipate the B in analysis and received it after I had submitted applications; I don't think I have enough additional math coursework to make up for exercising a pass/fail option in linear algebra way back when.

RESULTS:
Acceptances: Minnesota ARE ($$)
Waitlists: none
Rejections: Berkeley, Columbia, Harvard, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, MIT, NWU, Penn, Princeton, Stanford, Yale
Pending: Chicago, Cornell
What would you have done differently? Applied to Berkeley ARE and not Berkeley ECON when they made me pick just one; applied to more schools in the 20-30 range and not limited myself by the fact that I applied to 15 programs; discounted the advice of my former professors w.r.t. how far my school's reputation would get me; learned of and read the TestMagic forum earlier in the process.

breakz · 2009 March 18th, 09:19 AM

Yeah, again the big problem is (i) the lack of any safeties (you applied to the top 15 + Maryland, effectively) and (ii) the crazy process that was this year.

I'd also say lack of grad work may have hurt you...but I'm not sure anymore myself.

ImProcrastinating · 2009 March 18th, 11:34 AM

If you're sure you like ARE, I'd say go to Minnesota. It's a great program.

If you're not sure, I'd say wait a year and apply again to a wider range of schools. I honestly don't think you could hope to do much better than Minnesota ranking-wise. I also don't think there's much you could do to improve your profile at this point; since your thesis was so solid I don't think you need more RA experience, and more math would only help if you took hard math classes like Real Analysis II and got an A. But I know the crazy hours econ consultants work, so I'm not sure that's feasible.

jeeves0923 · 2009 March 18th, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImProcrastinating

more math would only help if you took hard math classes like Real Analysis II and got an A. .

I honestly don't think that would help very much... If you were gonna take classes, I'd take PhD level Micro and Metrics. There is no guarantee that next year will be easier, but you might have a better idea of the process and how to direct your applications, SOPs, and maybe find another good letter of reference... I don't know what to tell you, this process is brutal.

MathMathMath · 2009 March 18th, 01:57 PM

I would go to Minnesota unless you think ARE would be a bad fit for your intersets or you don't like Minnesota for some reason. From the research interests in your profile, it seems like ARE is a good fit for you.

I agree that the main helpful thing for you to do would be to take advanced math or Phd econ and get A's... But you might end up not getting A's if you do that while working as a consultant, and next year might be even more competitive than this, so even if you take a grad course and get an A in it, it's not a guarantee.

Retrospectively I think your advisors should definitely have told you to add more matches/safeties, but you did get into a good program.

Golden Rule · 2009 March 18th, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by breakz

I'd also say lack of grad work may have hurt you...but I'm not sure anymore myself.

I don't buy that at all. The main reasons why this application isn't doing well in top 15 is
(1) the performance in the intermediate undergrad econ courses, getting B's in 2 of 3 of these does get you into top 15.
(2) you can mitigate taking 3 years off by doing well in courses, so the B in real analysis hurts a lot.

Had the OP gotten at least A- in all these courses I think the application would have performed much better. The quality of thesis I think would normally help a lot, but it wasn't enough to overcome those grades. And I'm not sure if anything can be done to overcome that.

I can't say more 20-30s could work, but you did get rejected from Maryland in that range already, so it's really risky to count on that. I'd take the offer I have if I were you.

mermel · 2009 March 18th, 03:26 PM

I am surprised you did not have someone at your firm as a primary letter of reference writer. I also have done econ consulting since undergrad, and I think having an econ PhD partner at my firm write me a letter of reference really helped. It help shows that what you have been doing for the past 3 years was not useless for econ grad school (I challenge anyone to a Stata-off). It does help if the person from your firm has a good econ PhD, and you must be sure that they will write you a good letter of recommendation (all recommendors you must make sure of this).

ilikefreefood · 2009 March 18th, 04:36 PM

The B in Real Analysis was definitely an unexpected surprise, I think I just missed the cutoff in what was a very tight distribution for the class, and my apps were submitted largely with the expectation that I would be getting a better grade than I got. As I've discovered, applying to schools while taking real analysis and working substantial overtime can be a little taxing. :-)

If I continue to work as a consultant I can definitely take additional math coursework. My options for Ph.D level Econ coursework are pretty limited. In order for me to take more than one course at a time (potentially one summer course and one fall course), I would need to work in an RA position with a more predictable schedule. I'm in DC and I have a few connections to other organizations here with whom I could RA, but I suspect that it may be difficult to switch jobs if my primary objective is actually to work less and take more classes.

Minnesota ranks strongly in development and resource Econ. on EconPHD's publication rankings, but it fares less well on its network rankings. Most of their faculty in these fields are in the Applied Econ. department, and I'm confident that I'd have the opportunity to do work that interests me, but I am somewhat concerned about the placement opportunities that I'll have coming from this program relative to Econ. departments in the 15-30 range to which I feel I might reasonably be admitted if I reapply.

ilikefreefood · 2009 March 19th, 01:15 AM

I should add: what are people's thoughts on Masters programs like LSE that offer rolling admissions? Is there any chance at all of me getting funding to a program like that this late in the game? Is it likely to strengthen my profile significantly if I do well?

economics · 2009 March 19th, 01:18 AM

ok, you're probably 26 now. take your phd offer this year if you're serious. if people reject you this year, the same people will reject you next year. you're grown up and ready to do research, i'd say. have fun, and don't stress out! your life as a phd student is about to commence!!!

2009 March 18th, 06:20 AM	#1 (permalink)
ilikefreefood Eager! Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 38	My Admissions Dilemma Hey all, So this is what I get for being a lurker; a pile of rejection letters. Basically, I seem to have overshot myself, and I have been rejected to every straight Econ program I have applied to except for Chicago and Cornell from which I have yet to hear (and about which I don't feel especially confident given my 12 rejections at present). However, I have been admitted with a fellowship to the one Applied Economics program to which I applied, and I need to decide whether it makes sense for me to attend this program or to wait it out for another year. I would love to hear the input of some of the more seasoned veterans on the board. On one hand, there is a fair range of schools to which I did not apply and to which I could apply next year to gain admission. On the other hand, for my interests, attending an applied program could make sense. Additionally, I'm concerned about the how the length of time I've been out of school working in private sector consulting appears on my application. If I wait a year, I could try take another RA job that would look better on my application, or I could potentially take additional math courses (within the confines of what one can do while working as a consultant), but it looks like it's too late for me to apply to most Masters programs. What do you think? I have posted my profile on the thread, but I will repost it here for your convenience: PROFILE: Type of Undergrad: Econ major from a top 5-10 liberal arts college. Undergrad GPA: 3.73/4, magna cum laude with distinction in major for senior thesis research. Type of Grad: none Grad GPA: n/a GRE: 800Q 640V 5.5AWA Math Courses: Calc II-III (A,B+), Linear Algebra (Pass), Statistics (A), Mathematical Structures (A-), Real Analysis (B, taken as a non-degree student at a local school this Fall) Econ Courses: Principles Micro/Macro (A-,A), Intermediate Micro (A) Intermediate Macro (B), Econometrics (B+), pre-thesis seminar (A-), Ag. & Food Econ. (A), Development Econ. (B+), Econ. of Inequality (A), Econ. of Water Policy (B+), British Econ. history (B+) Other Courses: A pass/fail seminar on game theory, a Poli. Sci. course on agent-based computer modeling (A) Letters of Recommendation: 3 ECON professors (LAC profs but with Chicago/Stanford Ph.Ds), including my thesis adviser who has previously stated that my thesis was one of the best he's ever advised. Where possible, 1 VP at my Econ. consulting firm with whom I've worked extensively on econometric analyses. Research Experience: ~3 years as an RA in a major Econ. consulting firm; I specialize in statistical and econometric analysis within my office. Awards: Thesis award from state Economics association, thesis presentation award from state science association, college fellowship for (non-research) work in development related to microfinance. Research Interests: Development, environmental/resource economics, urban economics, general applied micro. statement of purpose: Well-written but fairly standard; mentioned specifically my interest in development and applied micro fields. Other Concerns: Didn't anticipate the B in analysis and received it after I had submitted applications; I don't think I have enough additional math coursework to make up for exercising a pass/fail option in linear algebra way back when. RESULTS: Acceptances: Minnesota ARE ($$) Waitlists: none Rejections: Berkeley, Columbia, Harvard, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, MIT, NWU, Penn, Princeton, Stanford, Yale Pending: Chicago, Cornell What would you have done differently? Applied to Berkeley ARE and not Berkeley ECON when they made me pick just one; applied to more schools in the 20-30 range and not limited myself by the fact that I applied to 15 programs; discounted the advice of my former professors w.r.t. how far my school's reputation would get me; learned of and read the TestMagic forum earlier in the process.

2009 March 18th, 11:34 AM	#3 (permalink)
ImProcrastinating Within my grasp! Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 120	If you're sure you like ARE, I'd say go to Minnesota. It's a great program. If you're not sure, I'd say wait a year and apply again to a wider range of schools. I honestly don't think you could hope to do much better than Minnesota ranking-wise. I also don't think there's much you could do to improve your profile at this point; since your thesis was so solid I don't think you need more RA experience, and more math would only help if you took hard math classes like Real Analysis II and got an A. But I know the crazy hours econ consultants work, so I'm not sure that's feasible. _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ Soon to be a first year at NYU!

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2009 March 18th, 01:57 PM	#5 (permalink)
MathMathMath Within my grasp! Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 186	I would go to Minnesota unless you think ARE would be a bad fit for your intersets or you don't like Minnesota for some reason. From the research interests in your profile, it seems like ARE is a good fit for you. I agree that the main helpful thing for you to do would be to take advanced math or Phd econ and get A's... But you might end up not getting A's if you do that while working as a consultant, and next year might be even more competitive than this, so even if you take a grad course and get an A in it, it's not a guarantee. Retrospectively I think your advisors should definitely have told you to add more matches/safeties, but you did get into a good program.

2009 March 18th, 03:26 PM	#7 (permalink)
mermel Eager! Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 80	I am surprised you did not have someone at your firm as a primary letter of reference writer. I also have done econ consulting since undergrad, and I think having an econ PhD partner at my firm write me a letter of reference really helped. It help shows that what you have been doing for the past 3 years was not useless for econ grad school (I challenge anyone to a Stata-off). It does help if the person from your firm has a good econ PhD, and you must be sure that they will write you a good letter of recommendation (all recommendors you must make sure of this).

2009 March 18th, 04:36 PM	#8 (permalink)
ilikefreefood Eager! Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 38	The B in Real Analysis was definitely an unexpected surprise, I think I just missed the cutoff in what was a very tight distribution for the class, and my apps were submitted largely with the expectation that I would be getting a better grade than I got. As I've discovered, applying to schools while taking real analysis and working substantial overtime can be a little taxing. :-) If I continue to work as a consultant I can definitely take additional math coursework. My options for Ph.D level Econ coursework are pretty limited. In order for me to take more than one course at a time (potentially one summer course and one fall course), I would need to work in an RA position with a more predictable schedule. I'm in DC and I have a few connections to other organizations here with whom I could RA, but I suspect that it may be difficult to switch jobs if my primary objective is actually to work less and take more classes. Minnesota ranks strongly in development and resource Econ. on EconPHD's publication rankings, but it fares less well on its network rankings. Most of their faculty in these fields are in the Applied Econ. department, and I'm confident that I'd have the opportunity to do work that interests me, but I am somewhat concerned about the placement opportunities that I'll have coming from this program relative to Econ. departments in the 15-30 range to which I feel I might reasonably be admitted if I reapply.

2009 March 19th, 01:15 AM	#9 (permalink)
ilikefreefood Eager! Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 38	I should add: what are people's thoughts on Masters programs like LSE that offer rolling admissions? Is there any chance at all of me getting funding to a program like that this late in the game? Is it likely to strengthen my profile significantly if I do well?

2009 March 19th, 01:18 AM	#10 (permalink)
economics TestMagic KanGuru Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 944	ok, you're probably 26 now. take your phd offer this year if you're serious. if people reject you this year, the same people will reject you next year. you're grown up and ready to do research, i'd say. have fun, and don't stress out! your life as a phd student is about to commence!!!

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