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Tex Jansen · 2009 May 5th, 08:34 PM

[quote=boiboi1986;758663]note that among LACs (and thus probably among all colleges/universities), middlebury places just about the greatest emphasis on teaching, but even then it's 50% research, 50% teaching. so...
quote]

I disagree. In general, the better the LAC, the lower the teaching load and the more they care about research. Middlebury is a very good school. A LAC with a 3-4 teaching load will barely care about research.

The article even mentions that Middlebury rejected applicants without strong teaching credentials in the first round.

FilleNouvelle · 2009 May 5th, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boiboi1986

"getting a best teacher award is like the kiss of death for professors, because it means you devoted more attention to teaching than research"

If that's true, that depresses me greatly. The term 'professor' to me means being a teacher above all things. If there are people out there who don't care at all about teaching, it makes me wonder why academic institutions hire them.

I think it's great to have a love of research, which I do. I even think it's great to love research more than you love teaching. But it really breaks my heart to see people in academic placements who don't care about teaching at all.

KGkhan23 · 2009 May 6th, 12:20 AM

Hey Fille. I did the first 1.5 years of my undergrad at a pretty lousy LAC, so I just want to tell you some of my personal experience. I'm sure things work differently at the good places, but at my school, I think life was pretty dim for the econ professors. I remember one assistant prof who was teaching six classes in one semester because he was trying to get tenure. This left him with basically no time to do research, and not enough time to devote to individual students, which is of course what LACs are supposed to be all about. The professors at my current (PhD granting) institution are considerably more accessible. I really think it is admirable that you want to be a good teacher, and I too think it's sad that there are academics who neglect that part of the job. But just consider that if you don't end up at a good LAC coming out of Virginia, you might be better off looking into other jobs.

SubEffect · 2009 May 6th, 05:17 AM

Fille, if that's how you feel, it seems like teaching at a LAC would be perfect for your interests! In contrast to Kgkhan, the professors at my school seem to really like the balance of research and teaching. They sometimes teach as much as 3 classes, but that is just if they want to get more leave time (during which they are basically free to do research). And one of my profs is a UVA phd.

boiboi1986 · 2009 May 7th, 08:42 PM

Quote:

I am told that at one school the "Best Teaching Award" is known by the students as the "Kiss of Death Award," since it demonstrates that the student who wins it is not sufficiently dedicated to academic research.

-The Making of an Economist, Redux (David Colander, 2007, p. 248)
The making of an economist, redux - Google Book Search

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boiboi1986

note that among LACs (and thus probably among all colleges/universities), middlebury places just about the greatest emphasis on teaching, but even then it's 50% research, 50% teaching. so...
quote]

I disagree. In general, the better the LAC, the lower the teaching load and the more they care about research. Middlebury is a very good school. A LAC with a 3-4 teaching load will barely care about research.

The article even mentions that Middlebury rejected applicants without strong teaching credentials in the first round.

- Tex_Jansen

hm i'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. but what i heard from a middlebury professor i once talked to was that the reason why he chose to go to middlebury (he got jobs at other very good schools too) was because they placed the most emphasis on teaching. but even then, it's still only 50/50 teaching/research

Abdullak · 2009 May 22nd, 09:20 PM

Does anyone knows what is the average salary of an assistant professor in a good LAC?

KGkhan23 · 2009 May 23rd, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abdullak

Does anyone knows what is the average salary of an assistant professor in a good LAC?

I do.

Mobius Strip · 2009 May 25th, 05:49 PM

$50-60k matches about the starting salary for Econ assistant profs at my small LAC (top 15). I did research on professor salaries as an RA at the LSE, and of course looked up my school. Top, top professors in departments maxed at a little over $120, the pres of the school made $300, and the average prof was around $50-60. Pretty sad given that my RA position at the Fed nearly reached that level.

Relating to life, professors at my school seemed genuinely happy. Teaching skill was regarding as most important by the students; I don't think many undergrads even paid attention to what the Professors were working on. We were more concerned with how well they taught us the material and made class interesting.

In the department, things might have been different. There was an uproar my freshman year b/c a very popular (with the students) professor didn't get tenure and was basically told to leave. So, I guess research will eventually trump teaching.

eggman · 2009 June 6th, 09:22 PM

Hi FilleNouvelle, I'll be in your interring class at UVa as well and I currently have similar aspirations to teach at a LAC or a University with more of a teaching focus (I'll be a TA for the intro classes as well). I personally believe that revealing to our professors that we want to be at a school with more of a teaching focus won't be harmful as long as we can show that we're serious about our research. As you can see from UVa's previous placement record, a few grads ended up going to top research universities like UCLA and Chicago, but most that went into academia ended up at schools lower on the totem poll where teaching is more of a focus (such as my undergrad alma mater William and Mary), so I would believe that our professors should expect that teaching should be one of our focuses if we want to go into academia.

Also, I disagree with some quotes on this post such as

"Also, it is less important to work under a star researcher in this [LAC] case. You are more free to choose an associate prof as your advisor."

From what Econ Profs. from William and Mary (where there tends to be a 50/50 split of teaching/research) who have been on the hiring committees have said to me, Getting letter of reference from professors that have good research is important. It is also useful for the professor to have been an advisor for a lot of other students, because this allows the writer of the letter of reference to better compare and evaluate you, giving a better picture of your strengths to the reader. But ultimately our Profs. at UVa will be the best advise for these issues and I'm sure they'll prepare us well for jobs where teaching is a focus in addition to research. I look forward to meeting you later on this summer!

2009 May 25th, 05:49 PM	#18 (permalink)
Mobius Strip Within my grasp! Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 108	$50-60k matches about the starting salary for Econ assistant profs at my small LAC (top 15). I did research on professor salaries as an RA at the LSE, and of course looked up my school. Top, top professors in departments maxed at a little over $120, the pres of the school made $300, and the average prof was around $50-60. Pretty sad given that my RA position at the Fed nearly reached that level. Relating to life, professors at my school seemed genuinely happy. Teaching skill was regarding as most important by the students; I don't think many undergrads even paid attention to what the Professors were working on. We were more concerned with how well they taught us the material and made class interesting. In the department, things might have been different. There was an uproar my freshman year b/c a very popular (with the students) professor didn't get tenure and was basically told to leave. So, I guess research will eventually trump teaching. _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ In: Michigan ($0 -- so far) Out: The Entire Top 15 it seems Pending: NSF Fellowship,

2009 June 6th, 09:22 PM	#19 (permalink)
eggman Trying to make mom and pop proud Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 6	Hi FilleNouvelle, I'll be in your interring class at UVa as well and I currently have similar aspirations to teach at a LAC or a University with more of a teaching focus (I'll be a TA for the intro classes as well). I personally believe that revealing to our professors that we want to be at a school with more of a teaching focus won't be harmful as long as we can show that we're serious about our research. As you can see from UVa's previous placement record, a few grads ended up going to top research universities like UCLA and Chicago, but most that went into academia ended up at schools lower on the totem poll where teaching is more of a focus (such as my undergrad alma mater William and Mary), so I would believe that our professors should expect that teaching should be one of our focuses if we want to go into academia. Also, I disagree with some quotes on this post such as "Also, it is less important to work under a star researcher in this [LAC] case. You are more free to choose an associate prof as your advisor." From what Econ Profs. from William and Mary (where there tends to be a 50/50 split of teaching/research) who have been on the hiring committees have said to me, Getting letter of reference from professors that have good research is important. It is also useful for the professor to have been an advisor for a lot of other students, because this allows the writer of the letter of reference to better compare and evaluate you, giving a better picture of your strengths to the reader. But ultimately our Profs. at UVa will be the best advise for these issues and I'm sure they'll prepare us well for jobs where teaching is a focus in addition to research. I look forward to meeting you later on this summer! _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ Will be Attending: UVA ($$)

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2009 May 5th, 08:34 PM	#11 (permalink)
Tex Jansen Within my grasp! Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 213	[quote=boiboi1986;758663]note that among LACs (and thus probably among all colleges/universities), middlebury places just about the greatest emphasis on teaching, but even then it's 50% research, 50% teaching. so... quote] I disagree. In general, the better the LAC, the lower the teaching load and the more they care about research. Middlebury is a very good school. A LAC with a 3-4 teaching load will barely care about research. The article even mentions that Middlebury rejected applicants without strong teaching credentials in the first round.

2009 May 6th, 12:20 AM	#13 (permalink)
KGkhan23 TestMagic Guru-in-Training Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 544	Hey Fille. I did the first 1.5 years of my undergrad at a pretty lousy LAC, so I just want to tell you some of my personal experience. I'm sure things work differently at the good places, but at my school, I think life was pretty dim for the econ professors. I remember one assistant prof who was teaching six classes in one semester because he was trying to get tenure. This left him with basically no time to do research, and not enough time to devote to individual students, which is of course what LACs are supposed to be all about. The professors at my current (PhD granting) institution are considerably more accessible. I really think it is admirable that you want to be a good teacher, and I too think it's sad that there are academics who neglect that part of the job. But just consider that if you don't end up at a good LAC coming out of Virginia, you might be better off looking into other jobs.

2009 May 6th, 05:17 AM	#14 (permalink)
SubEffect I JUST got here. Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 23	Fille, if that's how you feel, it seems like teaching at a LAC would be perfect for your interests! In contrast to Kgkhan, the professors at my school seem to really like the balance of research and teaching. They sometimes teach as much as 3 classes, but that is just if they want to get more leave time (during which they are basically free to do research). And one of my profs is a UVA phd.

2009 May 22nd, 09:20 PM	#16 (permalink)
Abdullak I JUST got here. Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7	Does anyone knows what is the average salary of an assistant professor in a good LAC?

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