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FilleNouvelle · 2009 May 5th, 12:34 AM

I remember a while back we had a thread about teaching at LACs. It wasn't an overwhelmingly popular choice, but for most on here, it seemed people would be satisfied taking a job at an LAC if they didn't have better offers from research universities.

However, I'm wondering if anyone else out there has different preferences (like myself) and would prefer to teach at an LAC over a research institution. It's not that I have a dislike of research, it's that I love teaching (my parents were both teachers, my grandparents, etc.)

What I'm wondering is if for someone who is interested in teaching at an LAC above all, should I approach the next 5 years any differently? I am going to TA and may get an instructor position in the 3rd year onwards, which should get me rather acquainted with teaching in general. The first year, I would guess, would be no different, since it's all about learning the material thoroughly and passing prelims. 2nd year is probably much of the same as well, still learning but in a specialized field. It's years 3-5 that get me wondering.

So I guess bottom line question: If you are interested in teaching in an LAC as your number one preference, should you approach a PhD program any differently, or is it simply a matter of making your preferences known on the job market?

SubEffect · 2009 May 5th, 01:24 AM

I'm currently a student at a small LAC (though I don't want to teach at one), and my professors have said that you're better off not advertising to your grad school professors that you want to teach at a LAC. Apparently, then they will give you less attention because their main focus is research and they want to produce more researchers..... don't know how true it is, but not telling people would be one different way to approach the program!

ZomgRogged · 2009 May 5th, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SubEffect

I'm currently a student at a small LAC (though I don't want to teach at one), and my professors have said that you're better off not advertising to your grad school professors that you want to teach at a LAC. Apparently, then they will give you less attention because their main focus is research and they want to produce more researchers..... don't know how true it is, but not telling people would be one different way to approach the program!

I've heard this as well, although for me it was in The Making of an Economist Redux.

Golden Rule · 2009 May 5th, 01:43 AM

Colander also wrote a detailed description of Middlebury's hiring process recently, see here: http://community.middlebury.edu/~colander/articles/hiring%20of%20an%20economistfinal.pdf
I think it tells you pretty much exactly what they're looking for.

YoungEconomist · 2009 May 5th, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZomgRogged

I've heard this as well, although for me it was in The Making of an Economist Redux.

I would like to point out that he was talking to a MIT student or something. Surely at a school like MIT, that is often looked down upon, since they see themselves as training researchers. It may still be true at schools in the 20 - 40 range, but then again maybe not.

Golden Rule · 2009 May 5th, 03:14 PM

To clear up some confusion, it is absolutely true that profs. want to train researchers, and any indication you don't care about research is bad. Suggesting an LAC as a career goal does not imply that you don't care about research, but saying that your career goal is simply to "teach at an LAC" does -- this shows some naivety as towards what an LAC prof actually does. The right way to spin it is that you want a career that challenges you to teach well in addition to producing research.

Tex Jansen · 2009 May 5th, 03:30 PM

If you are sure that you want to go to a LAC, it should affect where you choose to go for grad school. A highly ranked, rich private school might be very good at placing at R1s, but if they do not have students teach their own classes, they can be poor at placing them at teaching schools. Likewise some lower ranked programs seem to specialize at placing the bulk of their grads into taching jobs whereas others seem more focused on consulting and government work.

Also, it is less important to work under a star researcher in this case. You are more free to choose an associate prof as your advisor.

Plenty of LACs do care about research, and even mediocre ones will want some publishing, albeit in obscure journals. I think this may be the entire reason that some crappy journals exist.

Golden Rule · 2009 May 5th, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex Jansen

A highly ranked, rich private school might be very good at placing at R1s, but if they do not have students teach their own classes, they can be poor at placing them at teaching schools.

Looking at the appropriate table from the Colander paper I linked, it looks like top 10 schools were doing quite well in the Middlebury screening process. Did Colander say anywhere anything about particular details on teaching experience they were looking for? I've only skimmed the paper. It seems to me your performance in the application process & interviews is more impt. than any actual teaching experience you have.

I think having attended an LAC undergrad does help a lot though. The people in my program from recent years who got LAC offers were nothing special in terms of their teaching prep while in grad school though. I don't mean to imply they weren't good teachers, I just mean they didn't do anything out of the ordinary like run their own courses (which you can do over the summer here).

treblekicker · 2009 May 5th, 06:20 PM

based off of that table, only top 25 schools made it to the final round.

but it seems like teaching evaluations might mean more to you. i know many schools will in fact handout awards for top notch taing. you might want to look into that at uva.

boiboi1986 · 2009 May 5th, 08:19 PM

note that among LACs (and thus probably among all colleges/universities), middlebury places just about the greatest emphasis on teaching, but even then it's 50% research, 50% teaching. so...

also colander's making of an economist had some interesting things to say about teaching: (paraphrased quotes)

"getting a best teacher award is like the kiss of death for professors, because it means you devoted more attention to teaching than research"

"the profession is sexist: if you're a woman and say you want to teach, they generally let you be. but if you're a man, your advisors will dissuade you."

2009 May 5th, 12:34 AM	#1 (permalink)
FilleNouvelle GO HOOS! Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 618	Teaching at an LAC I remember a while back we had a thread about teaching at LACs. It wasn't an overwhelmingly popular choice, but for most on here, it seemed people would be satisfied taking a job at an LAC if they didn't have better offers from research universities. However, I'm wondering if anyone else out there has different preferences (like myself) and would prefer to teach at an LAC over a research institution. It's not that I have a dislike of research, it's that I love teaching (my parents were both teachers, my grandparents, etc.) What I'm wondering is if for someone who is interested in teaching at an LAC above all, should I approach the next 5 years any differently? I am going to TA and may get an instructor position in the 3rd year onwards, which should get me rather acquainted with teaching in general. The first year, I would guess, would be no different, since it's all about learning the material thoroughly and passing prelims. 2nd year is probably much of the same as well, still learning but in a specialized field. It's years 3-5 that get me wondering. So I guess bottom line question: If you are interested in teaching in an LAC as your number one preference, should you approach a PhD program any differently, or is it simply a matter of making your preferences known on the job market? _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ Going to University of Virginia!

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2009 May 5th, 01:24 AM	#2 (permalink)
SubEffect I JUST got here. Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 23	I'm currently a student at a small LAC (though I don't want to teach at one), and my professors have said that you're better off not advertising to your grad school professors that you want to teach at a LAC. Apparently, then they will give you less attention because their main focus is research and they want to produce more researchers..... don't know how true it is, but not telling people would be one different way to approach the program!

2009 May 5th, 01:43 AM	#4 (permalink)
Golden Rule TestMagic Guru Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,151	Colander also wrote a detailed description of Middlebury's hiring process recently, see here: http://community.middlebury.edu/~colander/articles/hiring%20of%20an%20economistfinal.pdf I think it tells you pretty much exactly what they're looking for.

2009 May 5th, 03:14 PM	#6 (permalink)
Golden Rule TestMagic Guru Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,151	To clear up some confusion, it is absolutely true that profs. want to train researchers, and any indication you don't care about research is bad. Suggesting an LAC as a career goal does not imply that you don't care about research, but saying that your career goal is simply to "teach at an LAC" does -- this shows some naivety as towards what an LAC prof actually does. The right way to spin it is that you want a career that challenges you to teach well in addition to producing research.

2009 May 5th, 03:30 PM	#7 (permalink)
Tex Jansen Within my grasp! Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 213	If you are sure that you want to go to a LAC, it should affect where you choose to go for grad school. A highly ranked, rich private school might be very good at placing at R1s, but if they do not have students teach their own classes, they can be poor at placing them at teaching schools. Likewise some lower ranked programs seem to specialize at placing the bulk of their grads into taching jobs whereas others seem more focused on consulting and government work. Also, it is less important to work under a star researcher in this case. You are more free to choose an associate prof as your advisor. Plenty of LACs do care about research, and even mediocre ones will want some publishing, albeit in obscure journals. I think this may be the entire reason that some crappy journals exist.

2009 May 5th, 06:20 PM	#9 (permalink)
treblekicker TestMagic Guru Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,102	based off of that table, only top 25 schools made it to the final round. but it seems like teaching evaluations might mean more to you. i know many schools will in fact handout awards for top notch taing. you might want to look into that at uva.

2009 May 5th, 08:19 PM	#10 (permalink)
boiboi1986 I JUST got here. Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 23	note that among LACs (and thus probably among all colleges/universities), middlebury places just about the greatest emphasis on teaching, but even then it's 50% research, 50% teaching. so... also colander's making of an economist had some interesting things to say about teaching: (paraphrased quotes) "getting a best teacher award is like the kiss of death for professors, because it means you devoted more attention to teaching than research" "the profession is sexist: if you're a woman and say you want to teach, they generally let you be. but if you're a man, your advisors will dissuade you."

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