One Bad Semester (first-time poster, advice appreciated)

[econ2011CH]

I'm sure this has been discussed a lot elsewhere, but I was wondering what effect a single bad semester has on my chances at a top econ phd program. In terms of my background, I'm currently a junior at an Ivy League school, majoring in international studies, finance (technically a b.s. in econ), and math (just added). My GPA through last semester was a 3.99. I just decided to get a phd THIS semester, so I tried to cram seven classes (including abstract algebra ) into my schedule. I eventually dropped the algebra class, but, by that point, I was already a month and a half behind in my other six classes. As a result, I got a B+ in finance, and will most likely get B/B- in Calc II and Econ 101. I had no problem with the material in any one class, I was just completely overwhelmed. After this semester, my GPA will likely drop to a 3.88 or so.

I was wondering what effect this will have on my chances at a top 10 (5) program. I will be staying a fifth year to get a math masters, so I'm not that concerned with the math grade. Instead, I would like to know what effect (1) the B in Econ 101 and (2) the overall drop in GPA will have. Any suggestions (retake any classes?) would be very appreciated!

[zshfryoh1]

I'm sure this has been discussed a lot elsewhere, but I was wondering what effect a single bad semester has on my chances at a top econ phd program. In terms of my background, I'm currently a junior at an Ivy League school, majoring in international studies, finance (technically a b.s. in econ), and math (just added). My GPA through last semester was a 3.99. I just decided to get a phd THIS semester, so I tried to cram seven classes (including abstract algebra ) into my schedule. I eventually dropped the algebra class, but, by that point, I was already a month and a half behind in my other six classes. As a result, I got a B+ in finance, and will most likely get B/B- in Calc II and Econ 101. I had no problem with the material in any one class, I was just completely overwhelmed. After this semester, my GPA will likely drop to a 3.88 or so.

I was wondering what effect this will have on my chances at a top 10 (5) program. I will be staying a fifth year to get a math masters, so I'm not that concerned with the math grade. Instead, I would like to know what effect (1) the B in Econ 101 and (2) the overall drop in GPA will have. Any suggestions (retake any classes?) would be very appreciated!

I had a similar situation, a two semester period where I was just overwhelmed and overworked, though in my case it was due to extenuating circumstances (taking care of an ill relative). Basically, every prof of mine in both the math and econ departments at my school gave the same advice, that if you are sure you know the topics and only did poorly because you were overworked, take more advanced classes in the same topic under more rleaxed circumstances and do well. If you got a B/B- in Calc II, take Calc III & IV and get A/A-. If you did poorly in intro micro or macro, take intermediate. Retaking classes is only good if you can't take a more advanced class in the same topic or if you are sure you know the work so well that you can pretty much re-take the course in your sleep or if you don't think you know the work so well and want to re-learn it.

Specific to your situation, the drop in cum GPA will not hurt significantly since a 3.88 from an Ivy with a double or triple major including a math major is excellent. GPA-wise, as long as you stay over a 3.75 or 3.8 you should be fine, and even a 3.6 will not necessarily exclude you from a top 10 admit, though it might make it difficult. As to the econ 101, a B definitely hurts a lot for a low level econ class, but as long as you can take a number of intermediate and advanced level classes and get A's, adcoms will see it as a fluke.

[econ2011CH]

Great advice...thanks! I'm considering retaking Econ 101 during the summer (I'm taking summer classes anyway, and this could replace an astronomy class--so, I figure this might be a good option). In terms of upper level math/econ (It's actually Calc III with the B--my bad), I'm planning to drop my number of courses down to four and take a couple grad-level math classes (adv. analysis and abstract algebra) and some more advanced finance (international banking--with a prof I'm working for--and fixed income). I'm also hoping that the fifth year will help make up for this semester, giving me a chance to take a couple econometrics classes, etc.

Is there anything else I should do? Did anyone else have a similar situation?

[greeneggs]

I'm sure this has been discussed a lot elsewhere, but I was wondering what effect a single bad semester has on my chances at a top econ phd program. In terms of my background, I'm currently a junior at an Ivy League school, majoring in international studies, finance (technically a b.s. in econ), and math (just added). My GPA through last semester was a 3.99. I just decided to get a phd THIS semester, so I tried to cram seven classes (including abstract algebra ) into my schedule. I eventually dropped the algebra class, but, by that point, I was already a month and a half behind in my other six classes. As a result, I got a B+ in finance, and will most likely get B/B- in Calc II and Econ 101. I had no problem with the material in any one class, I was just completely overwhelmed. After this semester, my GPA will likely drop to a 3.88 or so.

I was wondering what effect this will have on my chances at a top 10 (5) program. I will be staying a fifth year to get a math masters, so I'm not that concerned with the math grade. Instead, I would like to know what effect (1) the B in Econ 101 and (2) the overall drop in GPA will have. Any suggestions (retake any classes?) would be very appreciated!

I kind of did the same thing, only I got overwhelmed with grad classes and got some B's - don't know what's going to happen though as I get mixed advice from my professors.

I really don't understand how you plan on going from calc 3 to completing a math masters in two years though, especially without being overwhelmed. If you thought that abstract algebra was bad, just wait until you get into the phd level math courses. Unless you are talking about the classes that upper level undergrads and masters students take as opposed to the ones the phd students take, in which case those aren't really grad courses and you'll have to take them to be competitive so you should take those.

I guess I just don't see how you can do all this without being overwhelmed again and ending up with more trouble. I would forget the math masters idea and just focus on getting good grades in more advanced undergraduate stuff first. I'm not sure the extra year is really required either, maybe talk to your professors. Honestly the best people to ask for advice is your professors, you're going to need to talk to them anyway for LORs.

[econ2011CH]

Sure enough, B- in Calc III (It really was a fluke, though!).

And, yes, you're right; the math I will be taking will not be phd-level. Instead, I will be taking the 500+ level (I believe the phd cutoff is 600) versions of Analysis and Algebra--two semesters each--plus Geometry-Topology, two semesters of econometrics (at the grad level) and some upper level finance/stat. At my school, this qualifies as an MA--but it is of course not up to par with a MPhil or PhD here. I still figured the courses alone--and the more advanced level--would be a big asset.

One other question, though... would it be at all beneficial for me to enter into a European econ masters program for a year or two? I decided on the phd rather late (just a couple months ago, in fact--up to that point I thought I wanted to be an i-banker), so I figured some extra time to really focus on econ would be beneficial. If so, what advice would you all have regarding admissions to masters programs? Sorry for the multiple questions!!

[greeneggs]

Sorry I misunderstood about the MA, you should definitely take those courses, and that's pretty cool if you get a MA out of it. If that's the case maybe the extra year would be worth it, but ask your profs what they recommend.

I personally think masters programs are a waste of time. Maybe if you went to a weak undergrad program it would be a better idea; but I think you're better off going straight to phd. I know a lot of people on this board seem to like the idea - but I really don't get it. You're not expected to come into the phd program knowing everything already, they just want a signal that shows you'll be able to learn it and excel at it. If you really want to do the european masters I would say do either that or an additional year of undergrad, but not both.

And the B- in calc 3 really isn't that big of a deal, don't worry about it and don't bother retaking it. Just be careful with your more advanced classes and make sure you get A's. There's plenty of people that get into top 10 programs with a B here or there, but the rest of your application will have to be really strong. I'm not sure how hard it is to crack places like MIT or Harvard, but I'm sure there's a few exceptions there also (other than getting an NSF).

The most beneficial thing you can do for yourself though is get good letters of recommendation. Your letters are also likely to be better here than they would be at some european school too - and if you stay 5 years you have 2 years to get to know the profs really really well. They can even say something along the lines about what a good student you are and how this semester isn't representative of your ability.

[3ohto4oh]

I thought I wanted to be an i-banker

wonder why the switch

[econ2011CH]

Haha my advisers said the same thing... In my defense, I never REALLY wanted to be an i-banker (never interned or anything), and I was pretty sure about the econ switch before the whole bs/lehman collapse. You have no idea how often I get that reaction though...