UBC vs BGSE for masters

[icebear]

I've now been accepted to UBC and BGSE for their masters programs. Given my interests and preferences they seem well matched against each other. Because of BGSE deadlines I've already plunked down the 500 deposit, but even with that as a loss UBC would be as much as 5,000 cheaper (incl cost of living estimates) over the year according to my rough guesses. UBC at least leaves the option of a TA spot being granted in the coming months, which BGSE pretty much ruled out.

 

Goal: either prepare for econ PhD or obtain better qualification for public/private sector research position (currently unsure where I'd be happier in the long run, but the MA seems like an appropriate way to figure that out).

Interests: International (trade/finance), macro, development, in about that order (and interest in China/Asian economies for empirical studies)

City preference: About equal. Barcelona is amazing for weather, culture, and skateboarding year round. Vancouver has good skateboarding and snowboarding by season, some old friends, is much closer to home, and has a larger Chinese immigrant population (to try to maintain my Mandarin). I understand in either case I'll spend more time studying than these things, but its good to know the occasional weekend can be spent on something fun.

 

I'd appreciate any comments on perceived program quality, faculty availability, and reputation of the programs!

[cremorna2]

of course i cannot advise you objectivley as my only goal is devious: to get you off the waitlist at cemfi!! :P

 

just kidding. :)

 

seriously now, i'm sorry i can't help because i don't have a clue, but I wanted to congratulate you on the admits!!

[icebear]

of course i cannot advise you objectivley as my only goal is devious: to get you off the waitlist at cemfi!! :P

 

just kidding. :)

 

seriously now, i'm sorry i can't help because i don't have a clue, but I wanted to congratulate you on the admits!!

 

Haha cheers! At this point I'm not particularly hopeful of an admit with funding at CEMFI, and if given the choice between 1 and 2 years unfunded I'd definitely go for UBC or BGSE. But of course I'd be happy to be pleasantly surprised by CEMFI.

 

I figure until more good news comes in I can at least eliminate and decline one. But these two are really a close call...

[elcapitano]

If you think there is a decent chance you'll be working afterwards, and typically doing a masters makes people less keen in doing a phd, you shoul consider the institutional reputation of the university in the region you'll be working in...

[asmithb]

I have the same problem as icebear! I've just been admitted with partial funding to UBC and I am still waiting for BGSE and CEMFI. Given the fact that I am a latin american student, I have higher chances of being offered financial aid in Spain, since they have many scholarships for us. The problem is that I haven't decided which program will I choose. My goal is to be placed at a top American University after the master's degree. I know that CEMFI and UPF are great for that, but their programs last 2 years. I would complete the 2 year master's degree in BGSE, because

[asmithb]

it would prepare more for the PHD and I don't want to be unemployed in a country with almost 20% of unemployment! Canada barely has 8 percent and salaries are higher.

[walt526]

For me, the choose would easily be UBC. Mostly because I think it has a better international reputation, but also because I'd rather live in or around Vancouver than anywhere in Spain. YMMV.

[SlowLearner38]

One of my professors said something to me the other day about the Canadian economics departments that really got me thinking. He told me to treat a Masters acceptance at any of these schools (in my case: UBC, UT, Queens, SFU) as an acceptance to their PhD program (he did his PhD at Simon Fraser). Meaning, if you do well in the Masters program it is basically an auto-accept into their PhD program. That being said, I would lean towards UBC for your case. Having a spot in a top 20 PhD program "in the bag" is something to really give consideration.

 

Plus, Vancouver is off the charts.

[asmithb]

Thankls Slowlearner and wal256. One of my LOR Professors who is the director of the research department of the Central Bank of Venezuela told me to choose Canada over Spain, and that he thinks one year instead of 2 is enough preparation to me! but do you guys think that is a great option even for pursuing a PHD? I saw that it swifts between the positicion 25 -30 in the world rankings. Do you think it still is a good option for better PHD placements in America? Plus, Vancouver was ranked as the most livable city in the world by The Economist The only problem to me s that I am used to tropical and warm weathers! I was an exchange student in Phoenix, Arizona and I have only lived about 2 weeks with snow in Boston, when I was there in February 2007 for a competition representing my university! I saw a snow storm during a camping in the Grand Canyon, but it was nothing compared to Canada!

[SlowLearner38]

Thankls Slowlearner and wal256. One of my LOR Professors who is the director of the research department of the Central Bank of Venezuela told me to choose Canada over Spain, and that he thinks one year instead of 2 is enough preparation to me! but do you guys think that is a great option even for pursuing a PHD? I saw that it swifts between the positicion 25 -30 in the world rankings. Do you think it still is a good option for better PHD placements in America? Plus, Vancouver was ranked as the most livable city in the world by The Economist The only problem to me s that I am used to tropical and warm weathers! I was an exchange student in Phoenix, Arizona and I have only lived about 2 weeks with snow in Boston, when I was there in February 2007 for a competition representing my university! I saw a snow storm during a camping in the Grand Canyon, but it was nothing compared to Canada!

 

Remember that with regards to the climate, Vancouver is far from your [stereo]typical Canadian city.

[echocentric]

I have also received UBC MA offer with partial waiver. It is making me confused. I have one funded PhD offer from a non top 50 economics department in USA and am on one waiting list for one top university's policy related PhD program. Apart from location i.e. Vancouver vs. Wyoming vs. NY city (if luck favors), I have few concerns-

1. How difficult is UBC MA? One of my profs (from UWO) told me that it may be a bad decision to take MA @ UBC because it is very competitive inside, especially one is planning to apply for PhD later.

2. How is the possibility of TA ship. I just got usual partial tuition waiver. It will be hard to survive given my resources.

3. Exit option- how are the placements from UBC MA for foreign students? It feels good to have a degree from top 20, but if it wont help me to get a job when needed, it will not be of much use.

Any one declining UBC MA fellowship ? ;-)

[elcapitano]

@echocentric

1. Fairly competetive for a masters. Basically everyone there was at least in the top 10% of their undergraduate class. You should not assume that you'll easily be one of the best students, but there's no reason why you can't be. The atmosphere between students was not at all competive in my year.

2. I wouldn't count on it as they send out offers of taships with offers if admission generally. You should ask them, same with fellowships.

3. The ones I know about have jobs that they wanted or are in phd programs.

 

@slowlearner

you still have to apply to the phd at unc from the MA, informally I was told that a decent a average in the first semester would typically be enough. This would be I guess the top 25-30% of the ma class. There was one person in our year who got a conditional offer based on the second semester so there might be wiggle room!

 

Vancouver is the best place I've ever lived, the weather isn't so bad, much snow, remember the olympics :p, but I've heard barcelona is great to live in too, and the weather is for sure better.

Edited March 19, 2010 by elcapitano

[Guest _nanashi]

One of my professors said something to me the other day about the Canadian economics departments that really got me thinking. He told me to treat a Masters acceptance at any of these schools (in my case: UBC, UT, Queens, SFU) as an acceptance to their PhD program (he did his PhD at Simon Fraser). Meaning, if you do well in the Masters program it is basically an auto-accept into their PhD program. That being said, I would lean towards UBC for your case. Having a spot in a top 20 PhD program "in the bag" is something to really give consideration.

 

Plus, Vancouver is off the charts.[/quote

 

This is almost completely untrue, and I am a UBC grad. UBC's M.A. isn't very hard to get into relatively. They are a top 30 PhD with a pretty small incoming PhD class, only the top M.A. students from UBC can get into UBC. SFU is a different matter, their department internationally is not in the same league as UBC, or even in the top 100, though they are strong within Canada. I've looked extensively at SFU's program and I do believe you are correct that for SFU an admit into their M.A. will be a foot in the door to their PhD program provided the student meets certain G.P.A, given that some of the Core courses in SFU'S M.A. are the same as PhD courses this isn't that surprising. UBC M.A. the programs are completely separate, and M.A. students cannot even take PhD course corses with out special permission from the department.

 

That being said having lived at UBC for 4 years, UBC's campus is probably among the most beautiful in Canada. Marine Drive apartment style residences (apartments and studio apartments), which are for people 20 or older, have some fabulous ocean views if you happen to be lucky. They are also quiet enough to be conductive to studying. Vancouver as a city has a little bit of everything which is what makes it so wonderful. Unlike many metropolitan cities they've managed to preserve green space, and they are one of Canada's most culturally diverse cities. It is not unusual to hear 6 different languages on the same bus (Cantonese, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean, Punjabi, Persian, Spanish, English are all well represented).

[icebear]

Thanks for the comments guys - all very insightful.

 

For those who have lived in Vancouver, how would you rate the city's public transportation? One draw of Barcelona is that I know its incredibly easy to live there without a car and not feel 'hampered/constrained' because of this. I have no idea how Vancouver compares.

[SlowLearner38]

This is almost completely untrue, and I am a UBC grad. UBC's M.A. isn't very hard to get into relatively. They are a top 30 PhD with a pretty small incoming PhD class, only the top M.A. students from UBC can get into UBC. SFU is a different matter, their department internationally is not in the same league as UBC, or even in the top 100, though they are strong within Canada. I've looked extensively at SFU's program and I do believe you are correct that for SFU an admit into their M.A. will be a foot in the door to their PhD program provided the student meets certain G.P.A, given that some of the Core courses in SFU'S M.A. are the same as PhD courses this isn't that surprising. UBC M.A. the programs are completely separate, and M.A. students cannot even take PhD course corses with out special permission from the department.

 

I should have been more specific when I said that "if you do well" -- I left it to be generalized too much, my apologies.

 

That being said, thank you for the inside information. What is the difference in rigor between the MA and PhD classes?

[icebear]

Thanks for the comments guys - all very insightful.

 

For those who have lived in Vancouver, how would you rate the city's public transportation? One draw of Barcelona is that I know its incredibly easy to live there without a car and not feel 'hampered/constrained' because of this. I have no idea how Vancouver compares.

 

Additionally, how would you gauge the level of student interaction/community/camaraderie? A quick search on facebook and the UBC website showed what seems to be a fairly large and active undergrad Econ Association with lots of events, both social and academic/career oriented; is there some counterpart for grad students (or is the ESA for both grad and undergrad?)?

[echocentric]

@echocentric

3. The ones I know about have jobs that they wanted or are in phd programs.

 

 

Thanks Elcapitano!

Does it apply to international students too? I mean in US/Europe, it is very hard to get a job after 1 yr study.

[elcapitano]

@ icebear - In my year there wasn't that much formally organised but it's a decent size class so we had sports teams in a bunch if intramural events, went out and had parties a bunch. I don't know whether people get on as well as we did every year, but ubc is enormous so you should be able to find something to do.

 

@echocentric - I was only talking about international students so yes. I don't thunk the length of degree is likely to be a bar to getting jobs in Europe but being 6000 miles away might make it hard to attend interviews!

[asmithb]

Can you guys tell me an estimate for living expenses in both Barcelona and Vancouver? Could I live in a student residence (dorm) of UBC and that would be cheapier?

[gbea]

I should have been more specific when I said that "if you do well" -- I left it to be generalized too much, my apologies.

 

That being said, thank you for the inside information. What is the difference in rigor between the MA and PhD classes?

 

Yes the qualification if you do well is important. I do certainly get your point that by going to an MA program, you will have the best opportunity to demonstrate competence for the PhD program at that school. You often take PhD level courses, and the fact that, even if you don't know the professors deciding on admission, they know more about the courses you took and the professors you had for classes and recommendations.

 

However, at a top school, the level of performance that they expect in order to accept you to come back is often quite high, well above the median level. It is often not the case, as it is in programs such as Western Ontario, or even direct entry PhD programs, that if you perform up to par you are in. I would suggest that, going in to an MA program, it is difficult to have the confidence that you will perform well enough to be assured a spot in the PhD program.

 

So as to whether or not I agree with the advice, it is a tough one. If your goal is to be a PhD student at a given school, say Toronto or UBC, then it probably is the best path to go through the MA program at that school. Not only will you have the best chance to show the program you are compatible, the converse is also true, you will have an opportunity to see and participate in the department. You may find it is better or worse for you than you expected. However, I think the advice your professor gave you can give you too much confidence in your ability to turn 1 year into 5-6. If you are applying to PhD during or after your MA, you will want to apply to a few schools more selective and a few less selective.

 

Someone asked the question a while ago what to do if they have one school they want to go to for PhD, but a different school they would prefer, all else being equal, to do their MA in. I have to admit I have no idea what the answer would be.

[echocentric]

@echocentric - I was only talking about international students so yes. I don't thunk the length of degree is likely to be a bar to getting jobs in Europe but being 6000 miles away might make it hard to attend interviews!

 

 

Once again Thanks Elcapitano!

I did not mean to try for a job in Europe after UBC MA. Sorry if my paragraph was not that clear. I am from Asia, and as per the experiences of many others, it seems to me that getting a job in the USA after a one year degree in USA is pretty tough for Asians because of mainly Visa/work permit issues.

Here, story looks different since UBC is one of the best in the country and it is Canada. Job will be just my exit plan to recover some money I am going to pay for, in case I dont get a PhD and/or I find that PhD is not my career choice anymore.

[icebear]

Can you guys tell me an estimate for living expenses in both Barcelona and Vancouver? Could I live in a student residence (dorm) of UBC and that would be cheapier?

 

UBC estimates 12 months living at 15000-19000 CAD. For visa reasons at BGSE one must prove 10000 EUR in support for living costs, although I've been told the range is around 800+ EUR per month for 10 months. If you were paying full tuition at both they'd be nearly equal in costs for the year, depending on exchange rate.

[asmithb]

I got a partial tution waiver of 3100CAD, so does that mean that UBC would be cheaper than Barcelona? and what about Madrid?

[elcapitano]

Sorry I has the wrongend of the stick. I think Canada has a pretty lenient visa system. It's points based so you can check it out online, but I suspect you'd be okay for staying in Canada.

[echocentric]

Good for me then :)

Guys, any idea what is the deadline to accept/reject UBC MA fellowship/scholarship offer?

For me, it is 30 April and I think if chosen ones decline than I may have a chance.