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Tenhik · 2009 July 4th, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NB888

I have no idea where you might apply or what your chances might be.

I think there might be some age discrimination, but not insurmountable. I vaguely recall hearing about a professor who applied to the Ph.D. program of UC-Berkeley. He had 800's on the GRE, and (I think) a math bachelor's degree from the 1960's, and was in his forties. They rejected him, and then he threatened to sue them for age discrimination, and he thinks he would have won. Berkeley then decided they would rather offer this old man admission than participate in his fun lawsuit. He then finished the Ph.D. at about age 46. Had a bunch of visiting positions, including a few years in Spain. Got his first tenure track job at about age 51. Then got tenure at about age 58. His list of publications is now long and includes stuff in AER and Econometrica.

I'm guessing his math background was better than yours so that may have helped him. Math background might be the weakest thing in your application.

Surpisingly, apparently not. I assume you're talking about Gary Charness at UCSB? He told me last week he barely knows how to do multivariate calculus (how, I don't know). Maybe he was talking about now vs. then.

Interesting guy, I have to say. Apparently he was on the job market for five years, and given that he was from Berkeley, I have to suspect age discrimination came into play on the market too.

qwerty123456789 · 2009 July 5th, 05:23 AM

Well you are no doubt in the best position to judge, but after already obtaining two masters degrees I would have thought that you would be well placed to start research. I cant see how a PhD program that requires another masters/coursework where you have to start with the usual first year sequences in macro, micro and metrics will add enough to your existing skill set to justify that driving your decision.

Having said that, the places to focus in Australia would be Melbourne and ANU. It is also worth considering a few other places like Monash and UQ depending on what area of research you want to focus on. I should point out that there will be less than a full year of coursework required at each and the courses you take will be unlikely to add much value given your prior training.

kkaman · 2009 July 5th, 12:14 PM

''the places to focus in Australia would be Melbourne and ANU. It is also worth considering a few other places like Monash and UQ depending on what area of research you want to focus on. I should point out that there will be less than a full year of coursework required at each and the courses you take will be unlikely to add much value given your prior training.''

@qwerty, thanks for the info.The australian universities organize information in a weird way.It is very hard to find the strucutre of the coursework, content of the courses, recommended books etc.I don't know how much difference it makes but,I believe, a rigorous training at PhD level courses not only provides better foundations for research but also increases the value in the labour market.???

kkaman · 2009 July 12th, 01:11 PM

Though I am applying for the Australian programs(as suggested), the scenario is till uncertain.
If somehow the outcome is bad as had been with other applications, what would you guys suggest?

How do I signal strong maths background in the next round?

longshot · 2009 July 12th, 11:46 PM

Your numbers are certainly good enough for a US admit outside of the top 50, and while I understand your preference to stay out of the country, I'd bet that you could, at worst, leverage a funded US offer in a bid to get money from an international school.

Worst case scenario you get a funded offer from a US school and decline. Another route would be to complete a year or two in a US program and then transfer out of the country. A third suggestion would be to apply to a PhD by research, that is one without a coursework requirement. Several of those programs exist in the UK and Commonwealth.

As far as math signaling for the next round, if you're going to wait a whole year then you might as well try to pull off a 1 yr masters program.

kkaman · 2009 July 13th, 01:38 AM

Is GRE Mathematics Subject test of any help in my case?

walt526 · 2009 July 14th, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkaman

Is GRE Mathematics Subject test of any help in my case?

Probably not. First, somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 of the test is on material that's mostly irrelevant for studying economics: number theory, abstract algebra, geometry, etc. Although none of that material is particularly difficult, it is quite tedious and would require a lot of time to adequately prepare for it (time that could be used in any number of more productive ways). And if you haven't taken a course in abstract algebra or topology, or it's been years since you took high school math, you may find even some of the more elementary questions quite difficult.

Second, many adcom members might not be familiar with the test (or have an incorrect assumptions), such that they may not give any weight to a strong score.

Finally, if you bomb the test, then it's another strike against you. In the end, I think it would require too much time to properly prepare for it, and even then there's very little upside and quite a lot of risk.

kkaman · 2009 July 15th, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longshot

Your numbers are certainly good enough for a US admit outside of the top 50, and while I understand your preference to stay out of the country, I'd bet that you could, at worst, leverage a funded US offer in a bid to get money from an international school.

Worst case scenario you get a funded offer from a US school and decline. Another route would be to complete a year or two in a US program and then transfer out of the country. A third suggestion would be to apply to a PhD by research, that is one without a coursework requirement. Several of those programs exist in the UK and Commonwealth.

As far as math signaling for the next round, if you're going to wait a whole year then you might as well try to pull off a 1 yr masters program.

@longshot, I surely have no confidence for US admit as I think my age and no explicit mention of math grades in my transcripts coupled with low GRE score would hurt my admission chances let alone funding.

Second,I already have two masters and I do not have resources and energy to pursue another masters.Moreover, the admissions to most of the good maters programs are close.

I was thinking of joining non-credit earning maths courses but I don't think they would be of any help for admissions. And I am not sure whether some more research experience would help my case.

I would appreciate any suggestions.At this stage I am not sure of my strategy.

kkaman · 2009 July 17th, 01:22 AM

Hey guys, come on give some suggestions?

This is gonna be my last shot for PhD admit.

walt526 · 2009 July 17th, 02:17 AM

Basically it comes down to the fact that you really need to show that you can handle abstract math, preferably from a well-regarded institution. That's pretty difficult to do outside of a degree program.

Complete and total shot in the dark, as I have no idea how adcoms would consider an LSE External Programme, but LSE External does offer a "Diploma for Graduates in Mathematics."

Diploma for Graduates in Mathematics - University of London - LSE - External System - Structure and Syllabus

It's only £1,099 if you complete it in just one year. However, the exams are only offered once a year in May/June, so you wouldn't be able to apply until the next admissions cycle (i.e., start of Fall 2011). And there may be additional fees for the test proctoring.

I'd recommend the following sequence:
- Abstract Math (req, full unit)
- Advanced Calculus (req, half unit)
- Advanced Linear Algebra (req, half unit)
- Advanced Mathematical Analysis (elec, half unit)
- Optimization Theory (elec, half unit)
- Advanced Statistics: Distribution Theory (elec, half unit)
- Advanced Statistics: Statistical Inference (elec, half unit)

I don't think doing the electives on Game Theory or Math of Finance will help your cause as much as "truer" math courses (you've probably already been exposed to it in a previous degree and certainly will get a dose in a PhD). And of course you don't necessarily have to take the entire sequence: the exams would all be around the same time, so taking 7 finals in a short period of time may be too much. Probably the most important are the Abstract Math and Advanced Analysis, followed by the two Stat courses. You probably already have the multivariate and linear algebra down.

My understanding is that LSE External programs are very well respected when it comes to distance learning, but you should probably talk to one of the Econ professors that you are asking for a letter of reference for his take on its value for PhD admissions. The downside is that you won't get a letter of reference, studying advanced math on your own takes a lot of self-discipline and motivation, and you would have to delay until Fall 2011. But theoretically it would allow you to cover a lot of ground for a relatively cheap price (at least compared to a Masters, and you could conceivably continue to work full-time while you studied).

At least one paper, it would seem to do the trick. But an established British economist would obviously have a better sense of its value for grad school admissions than me. If not the External, maybe there's a university that offers a one-year graduate diploma in person?

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2009 July 5th, 05:23 AM	#12 (permalink)
qwerty123456789 I JUST got here. Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 22	Well you are no doubt in the best position to judge, but after already obtaining two masters degrees I would have thought that you would be well placed to start research. I cant see how a PhD program that requires another masters/coursework where you have to start with the usual first year sequences in macro, micro and metrics will add enough to your existing skill set to justify that driving your decision. Having said that, the places to focus in Australia would be Melbourne and ANU. It is also worth considering a few other places like Monash and UQ depending on what area of research you want to focus on. I should point out that there will be less than a full year of coursework required at each and the courses you take will be unlikely to add much value given your prior training.

2009 July 5th, 12:14 PM	#13 (permalink)
kkaman Within my grasp! Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 164	''the places to focus in Australia would be Melbourne and ANU. It is also worth considering a few other places like Monash and UQ depending on what area of research you want to focus on. I should point out that there will be less than a full year of coursework required at each and the courses you take will be unlikely to add much value given your prior training.'' @qwerty, thanks for the info.The australian universities organize information in a weird way.It is very hard to find the strucutre of the coursework, content of the courses, recommended books etc.I don't know how much difference it makes but,I believe, a rigorous training at PhD level courses not only provides better foundations for research but also increases the value in the labour market.???

2009 July 12th, 01:11 PM	#14 (permalink)
kkaman Within my grasp! Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 164	Though I am applying for the Australian programs(as suggested), the scenario is till uncertain. If somehow the outcome is bad as had been with other applications, what would you guys suggest? How do I signal strong maths background in the next round?

2009 July 12th, 11:46 PM	#15 (permalink)
longshot Within my grasp! Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 249	Your numbers are certainly good enough for a US admit outside of the top 50, and while I understand your preference to stay out of the country, I'd bet that you could, at worst, leverage a funded US offer in a bid to get money from an international school. Worst case scenario you get a funded offer from a US school and decline. Another route would be to complete a year or two in a US program and then transfer out of the country. A third suggestion would be to apply to a PhD by research, that is one without a coursework requirement. Several of those programs exist in the UK and Commonwealth. As far as math signaling for the next round, if you're going to wait a whole year then you might as well try to pull off a 1 yr masters program.

2009 July 13th, 01:38 AM	#16 (permalink)
kkaman Within my grasp! Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 164	Is GRE Mathematics Subject test of any help in my case?

2009 July 17th, 01:22 AM	#19 (permalink)
kkaman Within my grasp! Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 164	Hey guys, come on give some suggestions? This is gonna be my last shot for PhD admit.

2009 July 17th, 02:17 AM	#20 (permalink)
walt526 TestMagic Guru Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,308	Basically it comes down to the fact that you really need to show that you can handle abstract math, preferably from a well-regarded institution. That's pretty difficult to do outside of a degree program. Complete and total shot in the dark, as I have no idea how adcoms would consider an LSE External Programme, but LSE External does offer a "Diploma for Graduates in Mathematics." Diploma for Graduates in Mathematics - University of London - LSE - External System - Structure and Syllabus It's only £1,099 if you complete it in just one year. However, the exams are only offered once a year in May/June, so you wouldn't be able to apply until the next admissions cycle (i.e., start of Fall 2011). And there may be additional fees for the test proctoring. I'd recommend the following sequence: - Abstract Math (req, full unit) - Advanced Calculus (req, half unit) - Advanced Linear Algebra (req, half unit) - Advanced Mathematical Analysis (elec, half unit) - Optimization Theory (elec, half unit) - Advanced Statistics: Distribution Theory (elec, half unit) - Advanced Statistics: Statistical Inference (elec, half unit) I don't think doing the electives on Game Theory or Math of Finance will help your cause as much as "truer" math courses (you've probably already been exposed to it in a previous degree and certainly will get a dose in a PhD). And of course you don't necessarily have to take the entire sequence: the exams would all be around the same time, so taking 7 finals in a short period of time may be too much. Probably the most important are the Abstract Math and Advanced Analysis, followed by the two Stat courses. You probably already have the multivariate and linear algebra down. My understanding is that LSE External programs are very well respected when it comes to distance learning, but you should probably talk to one of the Econ professors that you are asking for a letter of reference for his take on its value for PhD admissions. The downside is that you won't get a letter of reference, studying advanced math on your own takes a lot of self-discipline and motivation, and you would have to delay until Fall 2011. But theoretically it would allow you to cover a lot of ground for a relatively cheap price (at least compared to a Masters, and you could conceivably continue to work full-time while you studied). At least one paper, it would seem to do the trick. But an established British economist would obviously have a better sense of its value for grad school admissions than me. If not the External, maybe there's a university that offers a one-year graduate diploma in person?

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