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grackle · 2009 July 2nd, 07:30 PM

Hi all,

I'm going to be applying in another year or so, two years after graduating, and I'm wondering what my chances look like, as well as what I can do to bolster my application in the next year or so.

Type of Undergrad: Top 25 U.S. research university with a Top 20 econ PhD program. Majored in Economics.
Undergrad GPA: 3.82
Type of Grad: Same as above. MS in Public Policy, but took a number of economics courses.
Grad GPA: 3.75 - 3.8, depending on how you calculate it.
GRE: 770Q, 650V, 5.5 AWA(Note: Undergrad courses only have whole letter grades, grad courses have +/- as well)

Math Courses: Calc I (A), Intro to Discrete Math (B), Calc II (B), Calc III (multivariate + some linear algebra) (B), PhD Econ Math (Pass, only offered P/F)
Undergrad Econ Courses: Intro to Econ with Calc, Micro, Macro, Game Theory, Quantative Analysis, Econometrics, Industrial Org., Negotiation, Behavioral Econ, Growth, Honors Thesis (All A's)
Relevant Grad Courses: Operations Research (A), PhD Game Theory (Pass, took P/F), PhD Optimization (A), PhD Real Options (A), Health Econ (A), PhD Statistical Computing (A), PhD Micro (in the public policy school) (B+)
Other Courses: Probability & Stats with Calculus (A)

Letters of Recommendation: Haven't gotten them yet/see below.
Research Experience: Honors Thesis on game theory related to online auctions.
Teaching Experience: TA for undergrad/grad (MS) growth economics course for 2 semesters, TA'd undergrad pre-econometrics for a semester.
Research Interests: Micro, game theory, I/O.
statement of purpose: Haven't written it yet. Any suggestions?
Other:
I finished my BS in 2007 and by MS in 2008, and have been working at an economic consulting firm since then. I'm working with a decently well known economist (who was a professor in the past), I should be able to get a strong recommendation from him when I apply (which may not be until 2010). In terms of other recommendations, I can probably get recs from other professor-type folks here as well.

The slight twist is that I applied to schools in Fall 2007, and didn't get in anywhere I wanted to go (the Top 15). I think there were a number of factors involved here, including my choice of recommenders and the very specific interests in my statement of purpose (which I made way too specific). As a result, I'm not sure how receptive my school professors would be to writing recommendations again.

Obviously, my stated math background grades could be better, so I'm thinking to take a linear algebra course (I've already had most of it, it just wasn't called linear algebra) and possibly real analysis. I'm hoping the PhD econ math counts for something, though. I can also retake the GRE if need be.

In terms of my statement of purpose, it's going to be pretty standard, talking about my interests, past experience, and why working has made me sure I want to do a PhD. Not as specific this time, though.

The big question: How are my chances of getting into a Top 15 school, and what can I do to make said chances better?

economics · 2009 July 2nd, 10:08 PM

i don't think you'll make the cut to a top10 program as you don't have any professors recommending you. professional recommenders (other than fed researchers) will be considered irrelevant by the adcommittee, i fear... also, since you applied in 2007 (with professors as letter writers) and didn't get into a top15, i don't think your public-policy MSc has improved your profile as your grad GPA is worse than your undergraduate PhD. furthermore, public policy and consulting is looked down upon by profs (as you know, i guess), so not having letters from your grad program will be a strongly negative signal.

i would say, however, that you may have a shot at public policy programs. if you apply to phd programs in public policy at places with a decently ranked phd program, you'll get the best of both worlds (well, one world): top ranked econ department and top ranked econ department.

i'd definitely throw in ALL top10 public-policy phds (ie where the econ departments are top 10).

what do you think? why aren't you applying to a public pol progam?

grackle · 2009 July 2nd, 11:55 PM

The recommendations I would be getting would be from folks that still publish regularly (with academic faculty), or that are associated in some way with economics departments, although they may still be irrelevant, I'm not sure. That's my fear as well, though. I could always talk to different undergrad/grad faculty members about recommendations, I'm just concerned that one or two of the people I worked more with won't want to do all of that again.

Regarding the influence of the MS, I'm not entirely clear on how that influenced things. I did a combined BS/MS program, which means that some of my graduate courses are actually rolled up into my undergrad GPA. If you break them out, I think i wind up with a 3.78 undergrad and 3.82 grad, but I don't usually do that since it's a bit hard to explain. Actually, I feel like there are a lot of things that are a bit hard to explain about my profile, which I'm sure hurts a bit.

In terms of public policy PhD programs, I'm not planning on applying to those for a couple of reasons. First, I think that a lot of my interests (micro/game theory, and IO to some extent) are "pure" econ. topics rather than public policy topics. I also think that an Econ PhD is a bit more flexible, and doesn't necessarily "label" you (as I think the Public Policy MS has done for me, to some extent).

I'm not totally opposed to something like that, but I think an econ department would be a better fit, so I'd rather work a bit and improve my profile with an eye towards traditional econ programs (or related programs like MEDS, etc.)

zshfryoh1 · 2009 July 3rd, 02:43 AM

I am a bit more optimistic about your chances than economics, and you do have a decent shot a top 10, though definitely no guarantee. You may have a bunch of B's in math classes, but you have A's in a number of PhD classes that should at least in part make up for it. You have a very good, though not excellent GPA from a very good school. You have research experience. You do need LORs from academics or someone who if they are not an academic has a PhD and is sufficiently well published that adcoms will know who they are, or else they will be ignored.

You have one glaring weakness for a top 10 and that is the 770 GRE Q, and this may be what killed you when applied in 2007. Depending on school, GRE Q cutoffs in the top 10 can be 790, 780 or 770, so you are under the cutoff for some schools. If you can get up to 790-800, you should be fine.

Also, your profile looks like one that a B-school econ PhD would love, with PhD game theory, real options, optimization and micro, plus an interest in micro, game theory and IO. Besides for MEDS, look at NYU Stern, Chicago Booth, and some of the other top B-schools with econ programs. Also, target econ programs in the 10-30 range that match your interests besides for the top 10s. BU, Caltech, UCLA, OSU and Duke all have either good micro or IO people if I remember correctly.

grackle · 2009 August 3rd, 07:12 PM

Sorry, lost track of this one for a while.

I'm glad someone is optimistic. In terms of recommenders, I would say my primary recommender (my boss right now) is "sufficiently well published." I'm also hoping to write a paper with him before I apply again for additional research experience.

GRE retake is on the list, as is a real analysis course (possibly). I also definitely going to be looking at B-schools.

Anyone have any other thoughts/comments/anything?

2009 July 2nd, 07:30 PM	#1 (permalink)
grackle I JUST got here. Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3	Profile Evaluation/Top 10 Hopeful Hi all, I'm going to be applying in another year or so, two years after graduating, and I'm wondering what my chances look like, as well as what I can do to bolster my application in the next year or so. Type of Undergrad: Top 25 U.S. research university with a Top 20 econ PhD program. Majored in Economics. Undergrad GPA: 3.82 Type of Grad: Same as above. MS in Public Policy, but took a number of economics courses. Grad GPA: 3.75 - 3.8, depending on how you calculate it. GRE: 770Q, 650V, 5.5 AWA(Note: Undergrad courses only have whole letter grades, grad courses have +/- as well) Math Courses: Calc I (A), Intro to Discrete Math (B), Calc II (B), Calc III (multivariate + some linear algebra) (B), PhD Econ Math (Pass, only offered P/F) Undergrad Econ Courses: Intro to Econ with Calc, Micro, Macro, Game Theory, Quantative Analysis, Econometrics, Industrial Org., Negotiation, Behavioral Econ, Growth, Honors Thesis (All A's) Relevant Grad Courses: Operations Research (A), PhD Game Theory (Pass, took P/F), PhD Optimization (A), PhD Real Options (A), Health Econ (A), PhD Statistical Computing (A), PhD Micro (in the public policy school) (B+) Other Courses: Probability & Stats with Calculus (A) Letters of Recommendation: Haven't gotten them yet/see below. Research Experience: Honors Thesis on game theory related to online auctions. Teaching Experience: TA for undergrad/grad (MS) growth economics course for 2 semesters, TA'd undergrad pre-econometrics for a semester. Research Interests: Micro, game theory, I/O. statement of purpose: Haven't written it yet. Any suggestions? Other: I finished my BS in 2007 and by MS in 2008, and have been working at an economic consulting firm since then. I'm working with a decently well known economist (who was a professor in the past), I should be able to get a strong recommendation from him when I apply (which may not be until 2010). In terms of other recommendations, I can probably get recs from other professor-type folks here as well. The slight twist is that I applied to schools in Fall 2007, and didn't get in anywhere I wanted to go (the Top 15). I think there were a number of factors involved here, including my choice of recommenders and the very specific interests in my statement of purpose (which I made way too specific). As a result, I'm not sure how receptive my school professors would be to writing recommendations again. Obviously, my stated math background grades could be better, so I'm thinking to take a linear algebra course (I've already had most of it, it just wasn't called linear algebra) and possibly real analysis. I'm hoping the PhD econ math counts for something, though. I can also retake the GRE if need be. In terms of my statement of purpose, it's going to be pretty standard, talking about my interests, past experience, and why working has made me sure I want to do a PhD. Not as specific this time, though. The big question: How are my chances of getting into a Top 15 school, and what can I do to make said chances better?

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2009 July 2nd, 10:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
economics TestMagic KanGuru Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 944	i don't think you'll make the cut to a top10 program as you don't have any professors recommending you. professional recommenders (other than fed researchers) will be considered irrelevant by the adcommittee, i fear... also, since you applied in 2007 (with professors as letter writers) and didn't get into a top15, i don't think your public-policy MSc has improved your profile as your grad GPA is worse than your undergraduate PhD. furthermore, public policy and consulting is looked down upon by profs (as you know, i guess), so not having letters from your grad program will be a strongly negative signal. i would say, however, that you may have a shot at public policy programs. if you apply to phd programs in public policy at places with a decently ranked phd program, you'll get the best of both worlds (well, one world): top ranked econ department and top ranked econ department. i'd definitely throw in ALL top10 public-policy phds (ie where the econ departments are top 10). what do you think? why aren't you applying to a public pol progam?

2009 July 2nd, 11:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
grackle I JUST got here. Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3	The recommendations I would be getting would be from folks that still publish regularly (with academic faculty), or that are associated in some way with economics departments, although they may still be irrelevant, I'm not sure. That's my fear as well, though. I could always talk to different undergrad/grad faculty members about recommendations, I'm just concerned that one or two of the people I worked more with won't want to do all of that again. Regarding the influence of the MS, I'm not entirely clear on how that influenced things. I did a combined BS/MS program, which means that some of my graduate courses are actually rolled up into my undergrad GPA. If you break them out, I think i wind up with a 3.78 undergrad and 3.82 grad, but I don't usually do that since it's a bit hard to explain. Actually, I feel like there are a lot of things that are a bit hard to explain about my profile, which I'm sure hurts a bit. In terms of public policy PhD programs, I'm not planning on applying to those for a couple of reasons. First, I think that a lot of my interests (micro/game theory, and IO to some extent) are "pure" econ. topics rather than public policy topics. I also think that an Econ PhD is a bit more flexible, and doesn't necessarily "label" you (as I think the Public Policy MS has done for me, to some extent). I'm not totally opposed to something like that, but I think an econ department would be a better fit, so I'd rather work a bit and improve my profile with an eye towards traditional econ programs (or related programs like MEDS, etc.)

2009 July 3rd, 02:43 AM	#4 (permalink)
zshfryoh1 Within my grasp! Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 385	I am a bit more optimistic about your chances than economics, and you do have a decent shot a top 10, though definitely no guarantee. You may have a bunch of B's in math classes, but you have A's in a number of PhD classes that should at least in part make up for it. You have a very good, though not excellent GPA from a very good school. You have research experience. You do need LORs from academics or someone who if they are not an academic has a PhD and is sufficiently well published that adcoms will know who they are, or else they will be ignored. You have one glaring weakness for a top 10 and that is the 770 GRE Q, and this may be what killed you when applied in 2007. Depending on school, GRE Q cutoffs in the top 10 can be 790, 780 or 770, so you are under the cutoff for some schools. If you can get up to 790-800, you should be fine. Also, your profile looks like one that a B-school econ PhD would love, with PhD game theory, real options, optimization and micro, plus an interest in micro, game theory and IO. Besides for MEDS, look at NYU Stern, Chicago Booth, and some of the other top B-schools with econ programs. Also, target econ programs in the 10-30 range that match your interests besides for the top 10s. BU, Caltech, UCLA, OSU and Duke all have either good micro or IO people if I remember correctly.

2009 August 3rd, 07:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
grackle I JUST got here. Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3	Sorry, lost track of this one for a while. I'm glad someone is optimistic. In terms of recommenders, I would say my primary recommender (my boss right now) is "sufficiently well published." I'm also hoping to write a paper with him before I apply again for additional research experience. GRE retake is on the list, as is a real analysis course (possibly). I also definitely going to be looking at B-schools. Anyone have any other thoughts/comments/anything?

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