Doctoral Program in Health Economics at Harvard School of Public Health

[thewhiterabbit]

@appl09 Two questions for you

1. What kind of placements is the program hoping for/aiming for, since it's new and we have no placement record to look at? If people take the Econ core at GSAS and can work with Econ faculty, is there some hope/idea that they may be taken seriously for Econ department placements or similar as health economists? Or are people being trained more for positions as health economists in public health schools?
2. What if any is the significance of this being an SD instead of a PhD? Both in terms of the perception of the graduates of the program, and the program's goals?

Thanks very much for taking the time to give insights into this (rather mysterious!) program.

[appl09]

@appl09 Two questions for you

1. What kind of placements is the program hoping for/aiming for, since it's new and we have no placement record to look at? If people take the Econ core at GSAS and can work with Econ faculty, is there some hope/idea that they may be taken seriously for Econ department placements or similar as health economists? Or are people being trained more for positions as health economists in public health schools?
2. What if any is the significance of this being an SD instead of a PhD? Both in terms of the perception of the graduates of the program, and the program's goals?

Thanks very much for taking the time to give insights into this (rather mysterious!) program.

1. The current graduates of a very similar program the Health Policy/Economics seem to place quite well in both Economics Departments and as health economists. The only difference is that the HSPH Health Economics Program has a focus on development than a domestic health focus. With the current course requirements for the programs, graduates can aim for whatever academic positions they wish - academic economists, health economists in econ departments, health economists in public policy schools or schools of public health. Past history of very similar requirements for students in HP or PP at Harvard seems to indicate that not only can be taken "quite seriously" as you note but place as well as any other graduates of economics-related Harvard program. Course training, school name (if you come from Harvard) and adviser network in the academic job market seem to go a long way. Of course, the type of work that you produce as a doctoral will limit your capacity among the above options: e.g. if your doctoral work is on cost-benefit analysis of onchocerciasis, you probably won't have any shot for a placement in a pure economics department.

2. Tell me more about your concern here? I hope I am misunderstanding your question (in which case please feel free to correct me) but were the actual letters of the doctorate for the current NBER president and a former chair of the MIT Economics department ever a concern for anyone to be even asking that question?

The program is not at all mysterious - it is just not marketed well because of how the HSPH Admissions Office functions and how that office markets its own social science programs (read: not well!). The second thing that contributes to the complexity is that some of the interdisciplinary programs at Harvard are organized somewhat oddly - PEG Econ track (managed by Econ Dept), PEG PoliSci track (managed by Gov dept), Sociology (GSAS) vs Sociology and Social Policy (HKS). It might be more than a bit confusing, no doubt. More importantly, this Harvard administrative minutiae doesn't really matter at the end.

[thewhiterabbit]

1. The current graduates of a very similar program the Health Policy/Economics seem to place quite well in both Economics Departments and as health economists. The only difference is that the HSPH Health Economics Program has a focus on development than a domestic health focus. With the current course requirements for the programs, graduates can aim for whatever academic positions they wish - academic economists, health economists in econ departments, health economists in public policy schools or schools of public health. Past history of very similar requirements for students in HP or PP at Harvard seems to indicate that not only can be taken "quite seriously" as you note but place as well as any other graduates of economics-related Harvard program. Course training, school name (if you come from Harvard) and adviser network in the academic job market seem to go a long way. Of course, the type of work that you produce as a doctoral will limit your capacity among the above options: e.g. if your doctoral work is on cost-benefit analysis of onchocerciasis, you probably won't have any shot for a placement in a pure economics department.

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense, I haven't looked into how Health Policy places but will do so.

2. Tell me more about your concern here? I hope I am misunderstanding your question (in which case please feel free to correct me) but were the actual letters of the doctorate for the current NBER president and a former chair of the MIT Economics department ever a concern for anyone to be even asking that question?

Well, the DPhil from the UK schools is pretty well established, but I don't think I've seen an SD before. I don't really have any knowledge about this, which is why I was asking - the question came after a friend in the hard sciences, when talking about this program with her, made the comment that 'oh, that (an SD) wouldn't be academic enough for [a third person we were talking about] by comparison to a PhD.' At least to her - and she may be uninformed - the SD connoted 'less academic' than a PhD. Since HSPH is able to offer PhDs through GSAS I guess I was wondering if the SD was specifically chosen to connote "Doctoral program with a different end goal than a PhD." But it's quite possible it was an administrative decision that doesn't signify anything - this is why I asked.

The program is not at all mysterious - it is just not marketed well because of how the HSPH Admissions Office functions and how that office markets its own social science programs (read: not well!). The second thing that contributes to the complexity is that some of the interdisciplinary programs at Harvard are organized somewhat oddly - PEG Econ track (managed by Econ Dept), PEG PoliSci track (managed by Gov dept), Sociology (GSAS) vs Sociology and Social Policy (HKS). It might be more than a bit confusing, no doubt. More importantly, this Harvard administrative minutiae doesn't really matter at the end.

I was just referring to the marketing, i.e. mysterious to a potential applicant who is trying to gather information, since there is so very little information online (compared to say any econ program I'm looking at.) For example in the above thread you talk about taking the econ core (which I would want) but as far as I could find the degree planner doesn't have the same info.

[thewhiterabbit]

Also, thanks very much for all the replies! It's really helpful. I'm going into a lot of depth because I'm seriously considering the program.

[appl09]

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense, I haven't looked into how Health Policy places but will do so.
Well, the DPhil from the UK schools is pretty well established, but I don't think I've seen an SD before. I don't really have any knowledge about this, which is why I was asking - the question came after a friend in the hard sciences, when talking about this program with her, made the comment that 'oh, that (an SD) wouldn't be academic enough for [a third person we were talking about] by comparison to a PhD.' At least to her - and she may be uninformed - the SD connoted 'less academic' than a PhD. Since HSPH is able to offer PhDs through GSAS I guess I was wondering if the SD was specifically chosen to connote "Doctoral program with a different end goal than a PhD." But it's quite possible it was an administrative decision that doesn't signify anything - this is why I asked.

The ScD is an older doctoral degree which was actually reserved for the sciences at Harvard. It is also pretty "well established" per your own wording in other top engineering and science schools. For example, most of the engineering MIT doctoral programs offer a choice between ScD and PhD. (MIT Course Catalog: Degrees Offered in the School of Engineering). This is a historic afterfact and there is no difference between the PhD and ScD at HSPH. The reason that HSPH still grants ScDs in Biostats, other social sciences is mostly rooted in it refusing to release control to GSAS over its doctoral programs. The only exception is the Health Policy PhD (controlled by GSAS).

I was just referring to the marketing, i.e. mysterious to a potential applicant who is trying to gather information, since there is so very little information online (compared to say any econ program I'm looking at.) For example in the above thread you talk about taking the econ core (which I would want) but as far as I could find the degree planner doesn't have the same info.

Correct, well the website is controlled by the admissions office (oddly enough for a Harvard office, in some aspects still in the dark ages of technology) and the program and its requirements by the actual program faculty members affiliated with it. The degree planner you are likely referring to is from 3 years ago - there are some serious changes to it in Fall 2007.

[appl09]

Also, thanks very much for all the replies! It's really helpful. I'm going into a lot of depth because I'm seriously considering the program.

What is your profile, if you don't mind me asking? Are your interests in development econ and health econ? If so, there is no reason why you shouldn't - I don't think there is a better place to be working on these areas than at Harvard. A few graduate students of the program are listed on the Harvard IQSS site.

[thewhiterabbit]

The ScD is an older doctoral degree which was actually reserved for the sciences at Harvard. It is also pretty "well established" per your own wording in other top engineering and science schools. For example, most of the engineering MIT doctoral programs offer a choice between ScD and PhD. (MIT Course Catalog: Degrees Offered in the School of Engineering). This is a historic afterfact and there is no difference between the PhD and ScD at HSPH. The reason that HSPH still grants ScDs in Biostats, other social sciences is mostly rooted in it refusing to release control to GSAS over its doctoral programs. The only exception is the Health Policy PhD (controlled by GSAS).

Wow, I'm at MIT and I didn't know that. Now I feel stupid :-). The GSAS thing makes sense.

Correct, well the website is controlled by the admissions office (oddly enough for a Harvard office, in some aspects still in the dark ages of technology) and the program and its requirements by the actual program faculty members affiliated with it. The degree planner you are likely referring to is from 3 years ago - there are some serious changes to it in Fall 2007.

It's so hard to use as well - shame they can't get on it.

[thewhiterabbit]

What is your profile, if you don't mind me asking? Are your interests in development econ and health econ? If so, there is no reason why you shouldn't - I don't think there is a better place to be working on these areas than at Harvard. A few graduate students of the program are listed on the Harvard IQSS site.

http://www.urch.com/forums/phd-econo...tml#post825272 (Roll Call 2011) is me.

My background is general development (you can probably guess where I work). Health is probably my primary interest inside that; my main concern would be committing too early to it.

[appl09]

http://www.urch.com/forums/phd-econo...tml#post825272 (Roll Call 2011) is me.

My background is general development (you can probably guess where I work). Health is probably my primary interest inside that; my main concern would be committing too early to it.

No clue - sounds very IPA/J-PALy, though. With your research interests, I think you will be a perfect fit. The primary faculty - Bloom/Canning/Fink/Soares/Cohen are all over the place in development econ - many of them working general labor econ/behavior econ/political economy and not exclusively health. So, I wouldn't worry about that part. It would be more of a problem if you are looking to do domestic health or more economic theory-driven work...then, your options for a primary chair adviser will be more or less limited to one person. I think you have a very good shot given your background, so I hope you decide to apply.

[thewhiterabbit]

Thank you! It is indeed on the list :-) and I'm pretty excited about it because it's a pretty great research interest fit.