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tm_guru · 2009 October 24th, 03:18 PM

I said 'no chance' at Princeton, MIT, Harvard, Northwestern, and Columbia. This is because they reject many students with profiles better than your profile.

However, if there is something you are not telling us, e.g. that you have a connection with professors at one of those schools, or you have some other special reason for getting in, then my 'no chance' will be wrong.

But you didn't mention any special reason, so I have to presume there is none, and answer accordingly. I think you will do well at programs ranked 20-50 :-)

Just rememeber that the chances of getting into a top ten school are small, even for someone with an 800Q, 4.0GPA, and research experience.

jjwong · 2009 October 25th, 05:57 AM

Thank you tm_guru.

I was not offended but somewhat surprised. After reading more I suppose its b/c of no teaching experience, a low Verbal GRE and not math major.

Can you suggest some 20-50 programs in the Northeast US that have good labor programs which you would be better bets? Rankings differ a lot on different sites and also I have heard that some lower ranking programs are harder to get into than higher ones.

Also, does anyone know if Chinese students have a hard time getting funding their first year? My speaking english is not perfect by any means.

Lastly, how much would it help that the professor I am doing research with who is also my thesis advisor went to UMD at College Park? I am not sure I would get in there even with that recommendation.

Thank you very much.

Gecko · 2009 October 25th, 12:23 PM

Good labour programs: University of Michigian, Boston University (Kevin Lang), Wisconsin-Madison (traditional strengths), Chicago (hard to get in, but Shimer is there).

tm_guru · 2009 October 26th, 03:07 PM

You can study labour economics as a field at almost any school in the Northeast. Dish out some papers you have read (and liked) as part of your studies and google the authors names, see what schools they are at and start researching their program. ONly you can determine the fit of the school.

As for funding, you are more likely to get a fellowship lower down in the rankings. Without strong spoken english, you are not likely to receive an assistantship in year one. :-/

asquare · 2009 October 26th, 03:33 PM

I think applying to a wide range of programs is a good idea. The bottom line is that it's very hard to get into the top programs without having something extraordinary about your profile -- that could be very strong LORs from well-respected professors, or solid research experience. Good grades alone are not enough to get you into the very top programs.

You've taken the necessary math, and teaching experience is not really an important component of graduate admissions. It helps insofar as it signals that you were considered a strong student by your department, and for international students, helps to reassure departments that you will be a capable TA. However, I don't think lack of teaching experience will hold you back. I think the biggest issue is the strength of your undergraduate and master's programs.

US master's programs don't have as strong of a track record in placing students in top PhD programs as some of the Canadian or European schools. Most US programs are pre-professional, rather than designed to prepare students for PhD programs. It sounds like yours is not. That's good. However, North Carolina State University is not a top university. It's not anywhere near as highly ranked as some of the schools you want to apply to, so your performance there will be discounted. The schools you are applying to may reason that courses or standards at NCSU are not as demanding as their schools, so doing well at NCSU does not guarantee you will do well in a stronger school, among stronger classmates. Furthermore, though you say you will have LORs from some of the best professors at NCSU, what really matters is whether those professors have a good track record for placing students at the schools you want to apply to.

jjwong · 2009 October 26th, 05:40 PM

asquare, thank you for the clarification. I see now why I am not as strong a candidate as I had thought.

Thanks to everyone else who has given opinion.

asquare · 2009 October 26th, 06:08 PM

jjwong, I don't want to discourage you from applying to programs you think would be a good fit. Your advisors are in a far better position to tell you how competitive you are than I am, so please take my advice with a grain of salt. I wanted to explain why people here were less optimistic about your chances than you expected.

jjwong · 2009 October 27th, 04:29 AM

asquare:
thank you. I will still apply to some top programs that are the best fit research-wise but I understand now its better to spread the risk, especially since I hope to get funding.
Thanks again.

walt526 · 2009 October 27th, 06:54 AM

Just keep in my that the further down the rankings, the less likely first-year fellowship funding becomes. Somewhere in the Top 50-100, nearly all funding is tied to RA/TAships, which you don't want to do your first year (so you can focus on core coursework and passing prelim exams).

Gecko · 2009 October 27th, 10:30 AM

well ^_^ the first year should be a little bit more manageable after seeing some familiar stuff post masters~

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2009 October 24th, 03:18 PM	#11 (permalink)
tm_guru TestMagic Guru-in-Training Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 635	I said 'no chance' at Princeton, MIT, Harvard, Northwestern, and Columbia. This is because they reject many students with profiles better than your profile. However, if there is something you are not telling us, e.g. that you have a connection with professors at one of those schools, or you have some other special reason for getting in, then my 'no chance' will be wrong. But you didn't mention any special reason, so I have to presume there is none, and answer accordingly. I think you will do well at programs ranked 20-50 :-) Just rememeber that the chances of getting into a top ten school are small, even for someone with an 800Q, 4.0GPA, and research experience.

2009 October 25th, 05:57 AM	#12 (permalink)
jjwong I JUST got here. Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 7	Thank you tm_guru. I was not offended but somewhat surprised. After reading more I suppose its b/c of no teaching experience, a low Verbal GRE and not math major. Can you suggest some 20-50 programs in the Northeast US that have good labor programs which you would be better bets? Rankings differ a lot on different sites and also I have heard that some lower ranking programs are harder to get into than higher ones. Also, does anyone know if Chinese students have a hard time getting funding their first year? My speaking english is not perfect by any means. Lastly, how much would it help that the professor I am doing research with who is also my thesis advisor went to UMD at College Park? I am not sure I would get in there even with that recommendation. Thank you very much.

2009 October 25th, 12:23 PM	#13 (permalink)
Gecko This user's posts are moderated. Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,081	Good labour programs: University of Michigian, Boston University (Kevin Lang), Wisconsin-Madison (traditional strengths), Chicago (hard to get in, but Shimer is there).

2009 October 26th, 03:07 PM	#14 (permalink)
tm_guru TestMagic Guru-in-Training Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 635	You can study labour economics as a field at almost any school in the Northeast. Dish out some papers you have read (and liked) as part of your studies and google the authors names, see what schools they are at and start researching their program. ONly you can determine the fit of the school. As for funding, you are more likely to get a fellowship lower down in the rankings. Without strong spoken english, you are not likely to receive an assistantship in year one. :-/

2009 October 26th, 03:33 PM	#15 (permalink)
asquare TestMagic Guru Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ann Arbor Posts: 1,725	I think applying to a wide range of programs is a good idea. The bottom line is that it's very hard to get into the top programs without having something extraordinary about your profile -- that could be very strong LORs from well-respected professors, or solid research experience. Good grades alone are not enough to get you into the very top programs. You've taken the necessary math, and teaching experience is not really an important component of graduate admissions. It helps insofar as it signals that you were considered a strong student by your department, and for international students, helps to reassure departments that you will be a capable TA. However, I don't think lack of teaching experience will hold you back. I think the biggest issue is the strength of your undergraduate and master's programs. US master's programs don't have as strong of a track record in placing students in top PhD programs as some of the Canadian or European schools. Most US programs are pre-professional, rather than designed to prepare students for PhD programs. It sounds like yours is not. That's good. However, North Carolina State University is not a top university. It's not anywhere near as highly ranked as some of the schools you want to apply to, so your performance there will be discounted. The schools you are applying to may reason that courses or standards at NCSU are not as demanding as their schools, so doing well at NCSU does not guarantee you will do well in a stronger school, among stronger classmates. Furthermore, though you say you will have LORs from some of the best professors at NCSU, what really matters is whether those professors have a good track record for placing students at the schools you want to apply to.

2009 October 26th, 05:40 PM	#16 (permalink)
jjwong I JUST got here. Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 7	asquare, thank you for the clarification. I see now why I am not as strong a candidate as I had thought. Thanks to everyone else who has given opinion.

2009 October 26th, 06:08 PM	#17 (permalink)
asquare TestMagic Guru Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ann Arbor Posts: 1,725	jjwong, I don't want to discourage you from applying to programs you think would be a good fit. Your advisors are in a far better position to tell you how competitive you are than I am, so please take my advice with a grain of salt. I wanted to explain why people here were less optimistic about your chances than you expected.

2009 October 27th, 04:29 AM	#18 (permalink)
jjwong I JUST got here. Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 7	asquare: thank you. I will still apply to some top programs that are the best fit research-wise but I understand now its better to spread the risk, especially since I hope to get funding. Thanks again.

2009 October 27th, 06:54 AM	#19 (permalink)
walt526 TestMagic Guru Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,308	Just keep in my that the further down the rankings, the less likely first-year fellowship funding becomes. Somewhere in the Top 50-100, nearly all funding is tied to RA/TAships, which you don't want to do your first year (so you can focus on core coursework and passing prelim exams).

2009 October 27th, 10:30 AM	#20 (permalink)
Gecko This user's posts are moderated. Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,081	well ^_^ the first year should be a little bit more manageable after seeing some familiar stuff post masters~

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