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sefi · 2009 October 31st, 11:18 PM

Hi guys,

I am writing this becoz i seriously think i am not cut out for a PhD. I am in the first year. And I'm already thinking about quitting. I did not realise that the math prep that I so lacked at the undergrad would weigh me down this much. I feel myself becoming uninterested with anything to do with economics since I am struggling so much. Has any one felt like this? I feel like I made the wrong decision in even thinking about a PhD. what was i thinking! But the other side if the story is that I don't know what I'd rather do instead. I was thinking that a more interdisciplinary approach would help me. what i know now is that I'm not happy and depressed and if I had a fall back option i'd quit this instant.
do people quit in the first yr itself?

NB888 · 2009 October 31st, 11:32 PM

.....

wind up bird · 2009 October 31st, 11:41 PM

This is a pretty common sentiment, actually. One thing to remember is that the first year is not representative of the entire program. I have heard over and over about students who struggled throughout the first year, barely passed prelims, and then became top students after starting actual research. It's possible that this isn't for you, but it would suck to drop out because of the first year when you might have flourished later.

Keep pushing. I haven't met people who didn't feel exactly like this during the first year.

tm_guru · 2009 November 1st, 12:07 AM

Good advice wind up, rep points to you.

To the OP, until you find an option that you would prefer to your current situation then as an economist you know it is rational to stay where you are.

Secondly, 8 weeks into term and you are overwhelmed and stressed, I'm sure others have felt the same, go talk to those who are further into the program and see how they felt and how they feel now. You might not be cut out for a PhD, but if you can make it through the first year, the approach can be as multi-disciplinary as you want it to be!

Now, it's time for me to dress up in a silly costume and get wasted. :-)

econslave · 2009 November 1st, 12:33 AM

Although I haven't entered a program yet, I have never heard any of my professors or people I know in Ph.D. programs who have said, "Wow! First year of my Ph.D. was the best year of my life!" In fact, some highly respected economists I know have failed prelims (and I virtually all of those I know have considered dropping out).

It's true that the rational choice is to stay -- as long as you're funded and don't know what to do otherwise, it's best to stick it out as long as you can. And even though we are all supposed to be rational, it's completely OK to have this type of fear about what's to come and disappointment in what you've invested your time in. But these things will likely change. Talk to some of your fellow classmates about this, and some of the people who have had more time in the program. You will probably feel much better when you realize that you're all in this pain together.

asquare · 2009 November 1st, 12:57 AM

Been there, done that.

Seriously. I'm in my 5th year now, but I definitely remember how discouraging earlier parts of the program could be. It's normal to be overwhelmed. It's normal to feel like you aren't studying economics at all, but somehow through some cruel trick of fate wound up in a math program instead. It's normal to wonder if everyone else but you understands what is going on. Being overwhelmed and discouraged does not mean you aren't cut out for a PhD in economics.

The best advice I can give you is to stick it out this year. Don't make any decisions during first year. Just push through it. Commit to doing it -- because to succeed, you have to be committed. When first year is over, you can step back and reconsider, but in the middle of first year, you just don't have the perspective to make a clear decision.

There are some things you can do to make this year better. First, make sure you are able to distinguish between understanding the concepts and understanding the math behind them. Don't get hung up on math that is more complicated than you will use for prelims and later on. Second, make sure that even with the math, you are focusing on techniques rather than getting stuck on details or notation. Third, work with other students -- your classmates are absolutely your best resources. Fourth, talk to upper year students in your program. They can tell you what helped them get through first year, and will have more perspective on your program than your own classmates. Fifth, be as organized as possible. Being organized will help you study for exams and prelims. Sixth -- but by no means least importantly -- make the time to go to seminars whenever you can. Seminars are the fun part. They will help you remember why you wanted to study economics in the first place, and though they may seem inaccessible at first, with a little practice you will start to see concepts and techniques from your classes at work in research. That's important motivation!

Don't compare yourself to your classmates. People start the PhD program with very different backgrounds, and math preparation in particular seems very important during first year. However, performance in first year classes doesn't matter at all once they are over! Focus on learning the material you need to know to pass prelims and to do the kind of research you want to do. Don't worry about how other students are performing. Differences that seem really big at the beginning of first year will be much, much smaller by the end of first year, and more importantly, performance during first year is a very poor predictor of how well you will do with research.

I was amazed at the end of first year to realize how much I had learned. I didn't feel like I was making much progress on a day to day basis, but at the end of the year, suddenly I knew all of this new stuff! Things that I didn't understand the first time around became a lot more clear when I studied them again for the prelims, too.

First year is hard intellectually and emotionally, but struggling doesn't mean that you made a bad decision or that you won't be a good economist. It's a very, very common experience. Hang in there.

Gecko · 2009 November 1st, 02:31 AM

Also, some time away could help - maybe a short movie every 2 weeks or a happy hour~

fthomassen · 2009 November 1st, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gecko

Also, some time away could help - maybe a short movie every 2 weeks or a happy hour~

Do you think the most effective way to work is to work every waken hour for seven days a week? I dont, and I dont think people should have that as an ideal. In periods of hard work, I find that after 12-13 hours work on a day I will start to have almost no incremental benefit from another hour spent, and an added hour may even destroy for my effectiveness the next day. Im yet to find the hour/day maximizing level. Have you found yours?

I was just wondering. Btw, do you think people really work as much as is reflected in statistics. From my own experience, I always overestimate.

sefi · 2009 November 1st, 03:13 AM

Hi guys..thank you for your feedback. i understand that my anxiety and worries about my abilities may be unwarranted. Its just difficult to believe so when it feels like I shall flunk my mid term
@ asquare what you addressed is exactly what I feel right now... It does feel like I entered a math program! And Yes..I also feel like I'm the only one who doesn't seem to follow wahts going in. Thanks for your perspective..it helped a lot .I will keep trying. and studying. and attend more seminars. I did that initially, but stopped eventually as I struggled to keep up with coursework.

Gecko · 2009 November 1st, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fthomassen

Do you think the most effective way to work is to work every waken hour for seven days a week? I dont, and I dont think people should have that as an ideal. In periods of hard work, I find that after 12-13 hours work on a day I will start to have almost no incremental benefit from another hour spent, and an added hour may even destroy for my effectiveness the next day. Im yet to find the hour/day maximizing level. Have you found yours?

I was just wondering. Btw, do you think people really work as much as is reflected in statistics. From my own experience, I always overestimate.

I'm not hinting that he works every waking hour - just suggesting that he should take a breather. it will help to clam his nerves..

2009 October 31st, 11:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
sefi Eager! Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 42	quitting the PhD Hi guys, I am writing this becoz i seriously think i am not cut out for a PhD. I am in the first year. And I'm already thinking about quitting. I did not realise that the math prep that I so lacked at the undergrad would weigh me down this much. I feel myself becoming uninterested with anything to do with economics since I am struggling so much. Has any one felt like this? I feel like I made the wrong decision in even thinking about a PhD. what was i thinking! But the other side if the story is that I don't know what I'd rather do instead. I was thinking that a more interdisciplinary approach would help me. what i know now is that I'm not happy and depressed and if I had a fall back option i'd quit this instant. do people quit in the first yr itself?

2009 October 31st, 11:32 PM	#2 (permalink)
NB888 Within my grasp! Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 108	..... Last edited by NB888 : 2009 November 1st at 03:26 AM.

2009 October 31st, 11:41 PM	#3 (permalink)
wind up bird Attending Caltech Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 306	This is a pretty common sentiment, actually. One thing to remember is that the first year is not representative of the entire program. I have heard over and over about students who struggled throughout the first year, barely passed prelims, and then became top students after starting actual research. It's possible that this isn't for you, but it would suck to drop out because of the first year when you might have flourished later. Keep pushing. I haven't met people who didn't feel exactly like this during the first year. _ _ _ _ SIG _ _ _ _ A nod to Harry Lime

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2009 November 1st, 12:07 AM	#4 (permalink)
tm_guru TestMagic Guru-in-Training Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 632	Good advice wind up, rep points to you. To the OP, until you find an option that you would prefer to your current situation then as an economist you know it is rational to stay where you are. Secondly, 8 weeks into term and you are overwhelmed and stressed, I'm sure others have felt the same, go talk to those who are further into the program and see how they felt and how they feel now. You might not be cut out for a PhD, but if you can make it through the first year, the approach can be as multi-disciplinary as you want it to be! Now, it's time for me to dress up in a silly costume and get wasted. :-)

2009 November 1st, 12:33 AM	#5 (permalink)
econslave Eager! Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 79	Although I haven't entered a program yet, I have never heard any of my professors or people I know in Ph.D. programs who have said, "Wow! First year of my Ph.D. was the best year of my life!" In fact, some highly respected economists I know have failed prelims (and I virtually all of those I know have considered dropping out). It's true that the rational choice is to stay -- as long as you're funded and don't know what to do otherwise, it's best to stick it out as long as you can. And even though we are all supposed to be rational, it's completely OK to have this type of fear about what's to come and disappointment in what you've invested your time in. But these things will likely change. Talk to some of your fellow classmates about this, and some of the people who have had more time in the program. You will probably feel much better when you realize that you're all in this pain together.

2009 November 1st, 12:57 AM	#6 (permalink)
asquare TestMagic Guru Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ann Arbor Posts: 1,725	Been there, done that. Seriously. I'm in my 5th year now, but I definitely remember how discouraging earlier parts of the program could be. It's normal to be overwhelmed. It's normal to feel like you aren't studying economics at all, but somehow through some cruel trick of fate wound up in a math program instead. It's normal to wonder if everyone else but you understands what is going on. Being overwhelmed and discouraged does not mean you aren't cut out for a PhD in economics. The best advice I can give you is to stick it out this year. Don't make any decisions during first year. Just push through it. Commit to doing it -- because to succeed, you have to be committed. When first year is over, you can step back and reconsider, but in the middle of first year, you just don't have the perspective to make a clear decision. There are some things you can do to make this year better. First, make sure you are able to distinguish between understanding the concepts and understanding the math behind them. Don't get hung up on math that is more complicated than you will use for prelims and later on. Second, make sure that even with the math, you are focusing on techniques rather than getting stuck on details or notation. Third, work with other students -- your classmates are absolutely your best resources. Fourth, talk to upper year students in your program. They can tell you what helped them get through first year, and will have more perspective on your program than your own classmates. Fifth, be as organized as possible. Being organized will help you study for exams and prelims. Sixth -- but by no means least importantly -- make the time to go to seminars whenever you can. Seminars are the fun part. They will help you remember why you wanted to study economics in the first place, and though they may seem inaccessible at first, with a little practice you will start to see concepts and techniques from your classes at work in research. That's important motivation! Don't compare yourself to your classmates. People start the PhD program with very different backgrounds, and math preparation in particular seems very important during first year. However, performance in first year classes doesn't matter at all once they are over! Focus on learning the material you need to know to pass prelims and to do the kind of research you want to do. Don't worry about how other students are performing. Differences that seem really big at the beginning of first year will be much, much smaller by the end of first year, and more importantly, performance during first year is a very poor predictor of how well you will do with research. I was amazed at the end of first year to realize how much I had learned. I didn't feel like I was making much progress on a day to day basis, but at the end of the year, suddenly I knew all of this new stuff! Things that I didn't understand the first time around became a lot more clear when I studied them again for the prelims, too. First year is hard intellectually and emotionally, but struggling doesn't mean that you made a bad decision or that you won't be a good economist. It's a very, very common experience. Hang in there.

2009 November 1st, 02:31 AM	#7 (permalink)
Gecko This user's posts are moderated. Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,078	Also, some time away could help - maybe a short movie every 2 weeks or a happy hour~

2009 November 1st, 03:13 AM	#9 (permalink)
sefi Eager! Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 42	Hi guys..thank you for your feedback. i understand that my anxiety and worries about my abilities may be unwarranted. Its just difficult to believe so when it feels like I shall flunk my mid term @ asquare what you addressed is exactly what I feel right now... It does feel like I entered a math program! And Yes..I also feel like I'm the only one who doesn't seem to follow wahts going in. Thanks for your perspective..it helped a lot .I will keep trying. and studying. and attend more seminars. I did that initially, but stopped eventually as I struggled to keep up with coursework.

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