Advice from a 2 1/2-Year Application Process

[AREStudentHopeful]

There are a lot of people on the forum I’ve seen the past few years that have talked about the fear of getting shut out or panicking about possible choices that have destroyed their chance at grad school. I just wanted to speak about my experience getting shut out from all the schools I applied to 2 years ago and what I have learned from the process. Before I go on, I just want to suggest a few other advice threads that have come up over the years that I think everyone can learn from:

 

Jeeves: http://www.www.urch.com/forums/phd-economics/113980-what-strange-ride-its-been-advice-if-you-come-unknown-state-school.html

John List: http://www.www.urch.com/forums/phd-economics/113848-some-reflections.html

Elliephant: http://www.www.urch.com/forums/phd-economics/130724-advice-2011-tips-low-ranked-undergrads-soft-majors-internationals.htm

 

When I first applied in 2009, I only applied to 7 PhD programs and was slowly rejected from them all (after getting waitlisted at UMass ERE, they finally rejected me around late April). I applied to late-deadline masters programs in March and was accepted to four US programs (both economics and ARE programs) with funding at two of them. I decided to attend an ARE masters program and reapply for the PhD this year. While obviously not the path that I originally desired, I have learned a lot about the admissions process, what my long-term goals really are, what to look for in a program and what having a passion for economics is really all about. Here are a list of my thoughts and suggestions in no particular order:

 

 

1. Research, research, research. Research everything in the admissions process before you do it. Look at the programs websites, solicit advice from the forum (and take it with a grain of salt ;)) and ask your professors’ advice (this one’s important). This will help you make an informed decision about what schools to apply to, how to craft your statement of purpose (yes, it does matter) and what steps you should take to better your chances. One of the initial mistakes I made in 2009 was that I applied to too few schools and I didn’t realize how competitive the application process truly was. Both of these things could have been remedied before I applied had I researched to process more and talked about my chances with my advisor and professors (I did have this conversation ex post).

 

2. Atmosphere and fit are key to happiness. One thing I learned by doing a masters in an ARE program is that an ARE program might not be right for me. I realized that I liked the depth provided by many straight economics departments and that oddly enough, I missed macro! This has made me realize how important the atmosphere and fit of a department are to your happiness as a grad student. While I have enjoyed my experience in my department and have learned much, I know that the atmosphere is not right for me to do a PhD. Even if your research interests are uncertain, try to visit departments if possible to assess what the atmosphere is like, how people interact and if you would be happy learning and living in that department for 5 years.

 

3. Don’t place too much importance on the admissions process. Something I learned after getting rejected everywhere I applied is not to let yourself be defined by or your career choice defined by the admissions process. Like most people here would be, I was extremely panicked when I learned I was rejected everywhere. Thankfully, a relaxing spring break trip allowed me to see that the admissions process does not a life make and that there was another path to the goal I was seeking: get a masters degree. This leads me to number 4:

 

4. A masters degree isn’t for everyone. I see the advice “get a masters degree” thrown around a lot. Obviously, there is first the choice of “which masters degree should I try for.” In my case, I think the best option would have been a stats masters degree which would have better-remedied my lack of math and stats (admittedly, I probably only could have gotten into an applied stats degree or something along those lines with only having 2 calc classes, LA, intro to stats and intro to proofs when I applied…maybe not even that). However, this was the best option for admissions, not for my sanity. I decided to do an econ or ARE masters on the basis that while I very much appreciate what stats and math adds to a skill set, I don’t think I could take 2 years of it with no economics and not go insane. This goes back to point 3 in that the admissions process isn’t everything. While I may have gotten a slightly better placement with a stats masters ceteris peribus, all else is not equal; I probably wouldn’t have made it through a stats masters and thus wouldn’t be here applying at all. Look at your level of math/stats comfort before committing to such a degree and balance this with your ultimate goals.

 

5. Get to know your professors, not just for the letters. Many people on the forum suggest getting to know your professors as soon as possible to get good letters. Well, yes and no. You do need to get to know your professors and they need to get to know you and your research interests in order to write good letters. But the possibility of having them as friendly resources, sounding boards and mentors will help you develop a greater passion for the subject and the field than just a letter can attest to. Find a professor or two that will push you in your independent research, your scope of what you “thought you knew” and the way you think about common issues. I think that liberal arts schools may do a better job at feeding this type of development than other schools, but it can be done at most average state schools; you just have to look for a professor a little harder and stick your neck out more to let them know you’re interested.

 

6. Don’t truncate your possibilities. Elliphant and thewhiterabbit have both expressed this emphasis during this admissions season, but I wish to express it further. Don’t pigeonhole yourself to a certain type of program or school because of a “straight-economics superiority complex.” I’ve seen a few people each season not apply to schools because they are afraid that “it’s not a straight economics program so it’s not rigorous.” While I will refer to point 1 in that you should definitely research the departments, look at where they placed and see if they are placing where you want to be, you shouldn’t count out applied programs, ARE programs or related fields (eg. Health economics, economics of education, political economy, ect.). Many of them have specialists who can provide you with rigorous training in their given field. Even sociology, psychology or computer science departments can sometimes offer a different route; just research them and see if they can help you reach your goals as well as economics programs. It’s not for all people or all career aspirations, but in some cases you may be surprised.

 

7. In the end markets work, sort of. There’s been a lot of research recently about the efficiency of markets in the face of knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns. These types of conundrums are exactly what we face in the admissions process. There are a few knowns, lots of known unknowns and a probably a few unknown unknowns about the economics graduate admissions cycle and process. In the end though, the market is generally fairly efficient at placing students given the relative knowns (and known unknowns) of the individual applicant. Obviously there’s a little noise and error but, in general, it works pretty well. And even if you get “under-placed” in the end (which, I think, rarely happens given that you’re only really under-placed if both your intellect is above your placement and your academic record is above your placement…it is sometimes one or the other but rarely both), there’s still the job market where you will wield the proof-of-intellect known as your job market paper. The market works pretty well; while we might not always like it (do you like it when prices go up?), you just have to sit back and enjoy the ride sometimes.

 

8. Let your letter writers know your goals. One thing that I have learned in my most recent cycle is to let your letter writers know what you want explicitly. In ARE departments, it’s not all that common to apply to >10 schools (or so my professors told me), so my writers were surprised when I was telling them I was applying to 14 schools this round. The first two questions I was asked were “What is your absolute dream school of the 14” and “Give me the two schools that you thing you have a reasonable chance at where you would most like to go.” Ex post, one of these schools was where I was accepted to.

 

9. Profile evaluations/comparisons will only take you so far. A lot of members of the forum (and I am guilty of this too) have asked for profile evaluations or have compared their profile with someone else on the forum. While I realize that this is a fun exercise to distract from the admissions process and may contain some limited value, it doesn’t tell the whole story. My profile would look “decent” to most people, but my results aren’t representative of this assessment. In my case, I had a letter of recommendation that hurt my chances at many schools, but nothing in my profile suggests this. Given the importance of letters of recommendation and of the statement of purpose (yes, it’s true), there are many unseen aspects of user profiles that account for much (most?) of the variation in results. So just remember when you’re browsing profiles to get an idea of your chances, take it all with a grain of salt.

 

While I know that the process of admittance is frustrating, nerve-racking and overall stressful, it’s just a hurtle in the process of doing something we really love: economics. Don’t forget the end goal and stop and smell the roses once in a while.

 

These are all my own thoughts on the process and I would be happy to talk with anyone about admissions, rejection or graduate school in general so feel free to comment or PM me.

Edited April 7, 2011 by AREStudentHopeful
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[applicant12]

that's helpful. Thanks ARE :). I like #5 & #8

[Charis]

You missed macro ...:confused:. What about it did you miss?

[AREStudentHopeful]

You missed macro ...:confused:. What about it did you miss?

 

Macro is probably the economic field that has the most economists dedicated to its study at any given time. I think because of this, a lot of models, ideas and tests have been put forth to find trends and test hypotheses of the various sides of debates. I'm particularly interested in monetary authority rules, regulations and their affect on the broader economy. Not only do I find it interesting from an academic, egg-head perspective of general interest, but I also think a lot of the techniques developed can be (and have been) applied to different fields for better analysis. That enough for you? :D

[valelee]

Great post, ARE.

 

Research is DEFINITELY important. So far most of my admits come from schools whose faculty had communications with me on my research (AAEA meeting presentation, two forthcoming papers ans several seminars). And I was lucky enough to have a few very well-known and well-connected professors to help me. And a research master's, i.e. M.S., makes all those possible for me. Okay, I think I should write a post based on my experiences as an international applicant who also applied more than once.

[Charis]

That enough for you? :D

 

Yes, thanks

[EconBeach]

Thank you AREStudentHopeful for sharing your experiences with us. Wish you all the best!