robbieboy74 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 How do you know if a PhD is right for you? All I know is that I love economics, and I am OK-smart. When I hear that Andrei Shleifer was considering being a mathematician, that makes me nervous, because I am far from being capable of that. I am good at math relative to regular college kids, but I certainly don't read math books on my own for fun or anything. Also, I don't want to do a PhD if I am going to struggle really badly with it, however. What can I do to be more confident in a decision I make? That being said, what can you do with just a masters from like LSE or Oxford? Any comments are much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seacucumber Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Read research papers and imagine yourself doing the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charis Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 (edited) Also, I don't want to do a PhD if I am going to struggle really badly with it, however. First of all everyone except the John Nash geniuses struggles to survive. Also the papers may seem intimidating, but recognize that this is the culmination of the process. Try to volunteer to help a professor out with his research and see how much work they put in and how they go about approaching their questions. P.S. I don't read math books on my own for fun either. I read econ books. Edited May 16, 2011 by Charis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oleador Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 You don't have to love math to the point that you read math books just for fun. But you have to be able to learn the necessary math when needed, and you will have tons of math during your PhD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRod Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 If you want to research economic issues and concepts enough to learn the current mathematical techniques and paradigms, then you have a shot. If you don't want to struggle to learn the information, then clearly it's not worth the effort. There are plenty of jobs one can have without a PhD in economics. But few require little to no effort. With a masters degree, one can do similar things to a bachelors. One will be unlikely to be a principle witness in economic litigation, teach at a prestigious college, or work at high levels within a government. One can always attempt to submit good research, or publish mass-market books. Or teach economics at the high school level, or with a masters, the community college level. One could fish, drive a bulldozer, open a bar, manage a McDonalds, star in a History channel reality TV show, freelance travel journal articles, teach English in Asia, work in an IT department, work in a sales department, sell shoes, trade stocks, commodities, or bonds, be a mechanic, be a preacher, be homeless, write Sesame Street scripts, shine boots, fly a commercial airplanes, get elected to public office, deliver mail, build computers, run line for a utility, or even study bugs. This list is, of course, far from comprehensive. Once you realize you want to study social issues within the economics paradigm more than all these other options, then you know a PhD program is your path to success. The easiest way to choose? Narrow the choice down to a small list. Choose one at random. If you have any hesitation, you know you made the wrong choice. Toss that choice. Continue until one option is left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbieboy74 Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 Thanks for your insights. I am willing to put the work in learning math at the necessary levels. Also, I do enjoy what I've done in research. That makes me feel better about the math. I wasn't sure if everyone was a prodigy or not. I think I will apply to a couple schools (I don't have a lot of money, so I can't afford too many application fees,) and if I get in, I'll take it as a signal. If not, I will become a shoe salesman. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzobrother Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 How do you know if a PhD is right for you? You don't. I don't think anyone knows a priori if a PhD in Economics is really for them. This is similar to asking, "How do I know I've married the right man/woman?" You can only answer these questions with certainty after you've done them. If we had the power of unerring foresight pre-nuptual agreements wouldn't exist. But since you say that you love economics, I think your on the right track by considering a PhD. For me I have a vague understanding of my interest and the best outward expression I can think of for that interest is to do a PhD in Economics. All I know is that I love economics, and I am OK-smart. When I hear that Andrei Shleifer was considering being a mathematician, that makes me nervous Paul Krugman, Steven Levitt, and Daron Acemogul are distinguished economist that, as far as I know, did not have heavy training in mathematics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruin4 Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 this may help....Which is for you: MPA, MPA/ID, or PhD? – Chris Blattman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneArmedEcon Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Talk to the professors whom you would ask to write your LORs who have been through a PhD Economics program. They are in a better position to gauge whether your capabilities and goals are best suited for a PhD Econ or another degree such as a MPP. Also, the conversation will likely help them to write you a better LOR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathemagician Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Posting your profile will also help us gauge whether you have the tools to go straight into a PhD program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbieboy74 Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) PROFILE: Type of Undergrad: B.Sc. Economics from top undergrad business, top 5 college,(Concentration in Finance, Statistics, Health Care Management); Minors in Economics, Mathematics Undergrad GPA: 3.75/4.00 GRE: Taking the new one in August. Math Courses: Business Stat I (A+), Business stat II (A), Stat PhD Applied Econometrics (in the fall), Stat PhD level probability (In the fall, uses matrices, MLE, etc..), Calculus II (A), Calculus III (A-), Linear Alg (A), Real Analysis (taking in the fall) Econ Courses: Intermediate Micro (A), Monetary Economics and Global Econ. (A), Health Care Economics I (A), Health Care Economics II (A+), Intro Econometrics (A-), Econometric Forecasting and Time Series (A+), Cost Benefit Analysis (A+), Business and the Political Economy (A), Financial Derivatives (A), Corporate Finance (A), International Financial Markets (B+), Investment Management (B+), Risk Management (B+) Other Courses: Health Care Systems (A), Clinical Issues in Health Care Management (A-), some random courses like legal studies and accounting that I got B's in, two years of Japanese (A,A,A,A) Letters of Recommendation: one from Chicago (will write a very good one), one from Harvard (will write a very good one, but not so senior), one from Wharton (possibly important one, haven't asked yet, if says no, have another one) Research Experience: working on a handbook chapter with professors; possible advised finance thesis in the fall Teaching Experience: private tutor for 8 years, but I don't know if it counts Research Interests: anti-trust, industrial organization, health economics, financial economics, behavioral economics, macro(maybe) SOP: not started Other: Two semesters of entire W's to deal with personal/family matters. Left campus for 1 semester and 1yr, respectively. They are completely resolved as of Jan, and the semester after I received (A+,A+,A+,A,A). I expect going forward to have similar success with the problem out of my mind. Unfortunately it didn't resolve earlier on...but life happens. Applying: I was recommended business school PhDs in economics since I go to a top business school, which may have more clout. Edited May 19, 2011 by robbieboy74 turns out the stat courses are PhD level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbieboy74 Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 maybe i should take ODE instead of advanced econometrics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRod Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Perhaps have one of your LOR writers address the W's--especially if you took and retook one of their courses. Then you can briefly address the W semesters in your SOP, without needing to go into detail. If I were on an admissions committee, my two biggest concerns would be: (a) you gamed your grades through W's (which the LOR can address); (b) you let family/personal needs come too far into your studies, and thus may leave at some point in the program without completing. It will be up to your brief mention in the SOP to address (b), but it would be a strong signal for (a) if your LOR addresses the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRod Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 That being said, you have a strong profile. Have you given thought into applying for the NSF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbieboy74 Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 No, I hadn't though about it. Is NSF = National Science Foundation?:blush: (I did a google search.) Is that like a govt think tank? Would one do (paid/unpaid?) research there instead of grad school? Thanks for the suggestions and insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joenobody0 Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 No, I hadn't though about it. Is NSF = National Science Foundation?:blush: (I did a google search.) Is that like a govt think tank? Would one do (paid/unpaid?) research there instead of grad school? Thanks for the suggestions and insight. While you are correct, the "NSF" (as it's used here) is a merit fellowship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbieboy74 Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 i compiled a list of places I would apply: is this about right? Berkelely Haas PhD UCLA PhD Stanford GSB PhD MIT Sloan PhD (worth even applying to?) Chicago Booth PhD (worth even applying to?) USC Econ PhD Cal Tech Econ PhD Yale SOM PhD Harvard Business School PhD (worth even applying to?) UCSD Rady Business School (Or pure econ) Claremont University UC Davis Economics UC Irvine Economics or Paul Merage Business PhD UC Riverside UC Santa Cruz LSE: LSE Masters in Mathematics and Economics LSE MSc Financial Mathematics Oxford: Masters in financial Economics Also, what kind of students get NSF? Why did you suggest it? will talk with my advisers about it and see if they know of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joenobody0 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Also, what kind of students get NSF? Why did you suggest it? will talk with my advisers about it and see if they know of it. Very good students get it. Even getting an honorable mention is considered to be a fairly prestigious thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbieboy74 Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 Very good students get it. Even getting an honorable mention is considered to be a fairly prestigious thing. Wow. My profile is really that strong? I thought it was fairly weak. I look at some people who majored in math and econ with a 3.94 and have research and LORs from like top professors, and they can't even get into top 10/20, which is discouraging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRod Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 If you're aiming there, it's less about how amazing of a 4.0 student you are; rather, the competition is how much research potential you have. An SOP thus becomes one of the most important things you can focus on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthunder27 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Wow. My profile is really that strong? I thought it was fairly weak. I look at some people who majored in math and econ with a 3.94 and have research and LORs from like top professors, and they can't even get into top 10/20, which is discouraging. It seems that business schools seem to be a bit more idiosyncratic in their admissions. Since they tend admit fewer students (and most of the time receive fewer applications) than their corresponding econ depts, they focus more on fit for the program (meaning they may pick a student with a lower GPA but more aligned interests over an otherwise identical student). Given your profile and interests, it certainly seems like b-schools may be the way to go. To your list I would also recommend Carnegie-Mellon, who are somewhat unique in that they have no separate econ dept, it's all through their B-school. Northwestern Kellogg is also a top program. Why did your list omit Wharton? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbieboy74 Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 To your list I would also recommend Carnegie-Mellon, who are somewhat unique in that they have no separate econ dept, it's all through their B-school. Northwestern Kellogg is also a top program. Why did your list omit Wharton? Frankly, I'm not a fan of Philadelphia. I heard Pittsburg isn't any better. That's why I listed so many CA schools. Ideally would be Caltech or UCLA so I could be around my hometown. Caltech seems a curious program in that there is very little information about it. I may not even apply if my prof's don't recommend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdoido Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Question @ OP: How are you going to take Graduate Probability without Measure Theory or real analysis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneArmedEcon Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Question @ OP: How are you going to take Graduate Probability without Measure Theory or real analysis? Very, very painfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdoido Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Very, very painfully. I think nearly impossibly. Correct me if I'm wrong but Probability is heavily based in Measure Theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.