UCL MSc or Oxford's MPhil... a personal dilemma

[AusEconGuy]

Hi All,

 

Looking for some input into my decision between Oxford's MPhil and UCL's MSc - the ultimate goal is to get a PHD and stay in academia/research.

 

Which ever I choose I have a weak preference for staying to continue my PhD, due to my preference for UK/Euro over North America...

 

Both departments have good people who I am interested in working with, but each has its own points which I am worried about. For Oxford I am worried about it's placement (particularly outside of the UK) - but maybe the strengthening of the core program (macro for example) may give back some credibility with the next few cohorts. For UCL, my main worry is the coming and goings of personnel Meghir, and potentially Blundell, how much will these losses hurt their reputation.

 

Any advice / inside info on either programs and relative pros and cons would be welcome!!

 

here's my profile for easy reference:

 

PROFILE:

Type of Undergrad:Econ with first class honours from Go8 Australian Uni

Undergrad GPA: 3.8 for standard Bachelor, 4.0 in Honours (Converted to US scale), 6.3/7 and 7/7 unconverted

Type of Grad: M Phil in Economics

Grad GPA: Coursework: 4.0 (US converted), 6.7/7 unconverted

GRE: 159V, 168Q. 5.0 AW

Math Courses: Math for Economists (B, undergrad), econ students dont do pure math courses in my institution

Econ Courses (grad-level): Macro (A+), Micro (A), Metrics (A+)

Econ Courses (honours-level): Macro (A+), Metrics (A+), Advanced Math Econ (A+); Behavioural Game Theory (A+); Micro (B; whoops!)

Econ Courses (undergrad-level): Micro I/II (B+; A+); Macro I/II (A+, A+); Metrics I/II/II (A+;A+;B); Econ Theory (B); Trade II/II (A+;A+); Econ History (A); Development (A); Money & Banking (A); Public Econ (A);

Other Courses: Finance I/II (A+;A) and some politics stuff

Letters of Recommendation:

- thesis supervisor for Hons and MPhil thesis, also taught me

- Prof I RA'd for over 2 years

- Assist Prof whom i tutored with for three years

- Head of School .... All should be positive

 

Research Experience: 6 years as RA for various profs (since 2nd year undergad); 3 conference presentations in 2011 for MPhil thesis; 2 thesis in experimental econ

Teaching Experience: TA for 4 years in range of courses from first year through third year

Research Interests: Behavioural Econ and Experiments, Information Econ, structural metrics - all with applications to political econ and IO

 

 

Thanks a tonne!

[AusEconGuy]

yep - i cannot spell attend!!

[oleador]

Why don't you consider BGSE and LSE? They are in your admit list.

[AusEconGuy]

The short of it is that:

 

1) BGSE expired in late January (they made and offer in December!) and I didn't accept it then, they didnt extend for very long when asked

 

2) Chats with profs who I worked with advised against LSE, calling it a `degree factory' - my Hons/MPhil advisor graduated with a PhD from there and others had been thru the masters programs

 

I am leaning to UCL at the moment... and have 10 days to decide. I think its going to boil down to a gut feeling that emerges by the weekend!

[Ivydream]

Personally I think UCL > Ox, largely because of 1 vs. 2 years. But Oxford has a very strong politics group. This however is somewhat irrelevant to your choice of MA program, unless you really want to continue to Ph.D there.

 

For me Ox >UCL, but that's more because Oxford is a lifetime ambition, just like Princeton.

 

Go with your heart. failing that your head and failing that your wallet.

 

You're in an enviable position, all the best.

[econosur]

Personally I really like Oxford as a university and as a department in UK, but 2 years I think is too much (that is one of the reasons why it wasn't in my list). In fact, I realized that this year they added a third deadline in april (are they missing good candidates because is a 2 year programme or what??) when every year has only 2. Check their website.

 

UCL is just 1 year and from what I've heard is really tough, thus preparing you well for a PhD. Many people say it is the hardest programme in UK, only below to LSE EME (not very comparable) and Cambridge MPhil Research.

[oleador]

Personally I think UCL > Ox, largely because of 1 vs. 2 years.

 

But if you want to do PhD at the same school you go for Master, then you should consider the duration of the Master+PhD, not just Master. I guess it should be the same at UCL and Oxford. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Ivydream]

Off the top of my head UCL will be a 1+3 and Ox 2+2 so you're correct. That said the OP didn't expressly state he said he wanted to stay, only that he had a weak preference?

[niujuan]

Why do not you to consider BGSE and the LSE? They are recognized.[ATTACH=CONFIG]6484[/ATTACH]

[oleador]

Why do not youtoconsiderBGSEandthe LSE?They arerecognized.http://www.www.urch.com/forums/attachments/phd-economics/6484-ucl-msc-oxfords-mphil-personal-dilemma-2.gif

 

see post #4

[pudim]

Hi All,

Both departments have good people who I am interested in working with, but each has its own points which I am worried about. For Oxford I am worried about it's placement (particularly outside of the UK) - but maybe the strengthening of the core program (macro for example) may give back some credibility with the next few cohorts. For UCL, my main worry is the coming and goings of personnel Meghir, and potentially Blundell, how much will these losses hurt their reputation.

Can you please elaborate on this? Thanks. :)

[econosur]

Why do not youtoconsiderBGSEandthe LSE?They arerecognized.http://www.www.urch.com/forums/attachments/phd-economics/6484-ucl-msc-oxfords-mphil-personal-dilemma-2.gif

 

I think that you missed the word "too" at the end of your statement.

[econosur]

Off the top of my head UCL will be a 1+3 and Ox 2+2 so you're correct. That said the OP didn't expressly state he said he wanted to stay, only that he had a weak preference?

 

The thing is what about if the OP finally decide not to go for a Phd at the end of the first year in the MPhil?....The guy would have nothing. He would has to wait another year just to certify he studied economics at an advanced level. I think that Oxford will have to change its policy sooner or later to the cambridge way where they have a Diploma + 1 year MPhil, so in the case that you can not enter directly to MPhil and you be admitted to diploma first and realize in this year that it's enough economics for you, you can go home with at least a diploma, which from what I know is not the case in Oxford.

[Ivydream]

The thing is what about if the OP finally decide not to go for a Phd at the end of the first year in the MPhil?....The guy would have nothing. He would has to wait another year just to certify he studied economics at an advanced level. I think that Oxford will have to change its policy sooner or later to the cambridge way where they have a Diploma + 1 year MPhil, so in the case that you can not enter directly to MPhil and you be admitted to diploma first and realize in this year that it's enough economics for you, you can go home with at least a diploma, which from what I know is not the case in Oxford.

 

You raise a valid point, many with aspirations for the U.S skip Ox entirely, however Ox does have a significant enough reputation to fill its ranks irrespective of whether its a 2 year programme.

 

We're also overlooking the scale of the thesis at Ox compared with Cam or UCL

[AusEconGuy]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for the comments so far - they too seem to be slightly favouring UCL

 

A few comments to add (from my side):

 

- Regarding thesis length etc - I'm not so worried about this - I already have two thesis (one honour's one Mphil) both which are in the process of being submitted. I am guessing my profile looked weak on coursework because of restrictions at my current uni regarding coursework enrollment.

 

- On the whether to PhD or not to Phd question: I am very sure I want to tread this road, the main reason I stuck around for my current MPhil was to be sure that I knew what I was getting myself into. My supervisor and I pushed me through as many barriers as possible to make sure I knew what I was getting myself into in regards to coursework, research, seminars, conferences etc.

 

- For my Macro comment (for pudim), I have been informed they have shifted the teaching to a more `modern' theme of dynamic stochastic modelling. I don't know what was there before, but I know it wasn't that. A year or two ago they tried to poach a very good macro guy from my current department but were unsuccessful, my perception is that they are trying improve their macro group.

 

-Does anyone know when college admissions are finalised at Oxford? I emailed but didnt get a good guideline in the response (I was told my application was at a college and a decision would be made 'soon'). My UCL deadline is May 2nd... eeeekk!

 

All in all, I'm still leaning towards UCL... hopefully over the weekend I can make a final decision

 

Thanks again

[pudim]

Thanks for the info, AusEconGuy. ;)

 

I really hope they're trying to improve macro there, as I'll probably be attending next year and my primary interest is exactly macro.

[econ122]

-Does anyone know when college admissions are finalised at Oxford? I emailed but didnt get a good guideline in the response (I was told my application was at a college and a decision would be made 'soon').

 

What college did you apply to?