Can Letters Compensate for Math B's?

[Humanomics]

I went to community college for my first two years (returning, older student). I got bad advice about math when I got to my 4-year. I didn't start precalc until my third year of school. So I've done exactly what you're not supposed to do -- rushed the math.

Now I have a withdraw in Intro Proofs, a follow-up B, a B in Diff Eq, and a B in applied math stat. Everything else I aced. Two year's research experience with world acclaimed economist -- says I'm the best student they've had in forty years of teaching. Director of undergraduate studies says I'm in the top 99th percentile of students she's seen in 35 years at the college (mid-lower state school). Third letter will corroborate and glow as well. I have well-defined research interests, and am voracious.

This semester I'm taking Analysis, Grad Macro, and Prob Theory -- those won't be on my transcript but I can probably get a letter from one or more professors attesting my performance (is this a good idea, or a desperate and reaching move?).

Do you all think it's even worth applying to the top 20 this cycle? If I don't get in anywhere this cycle I'm going to go down to Chapman's Experimental Economics MA. They haven't sent anyone to a top 20 yet, but the program is brand new, and it is after all Vernon Smith's baby. I'll hold my breath. I can't spend two years at UBC studying generic models that don't compel me.

Do you think my background will suffice to explain-away my B's, along with my letters compensating, or do you guys see me at Chapman in the near future?

[anonecon]

If the economist you did research with is really that famous and does think you're the best student he's had in 40 years, then maybe he can make a phone call or send an to some of his colleagues at these institutions explaining your situation and telling them to keep an eye out for your application because he genuinely believes you're going to be a star.

[tm_member]

Those B's aren't exactly a great signal but if you have A's in the calc sequence and Linear Algebra, then it's not such a big deal. That is, the opposite situation (B's in calc, and A's in things like Applied Math Stats) would be much more serious.

If your letters are as good as you say, you should apply with confidence.

[Humanomics]

Yeah, I think I'm going to have them do the explaining of my situation. I mean, you can watch the trend on my transcript -- I took 8 college level math courses in four semesters, after having to take pre-credit algebra at community college (hadn't touched math in 14 years; dropped out of HS). The grades mark in inverse proportion to the pace of the sequence. I aced the calc sequence and the mathy linear. I think the explaining/excuse-maing will sound better coming from them than me.

As far as strings-pulling, my adviser has said that few people in the department get involved in these decisions outside of the admissions committee itself, because there are just so many applicants with advisers who have connections -- there would be a slew of phone calls and emails every winter otherwise. There's a reason they delegate adcom stuff to young assistant professors; nobody wants to be bothered with it. I think she might send a couple one line emails to her buddies, and I'm certainly applying where her relationships are strongest, but I'm not counting on networking to get me there, more the letters themselves.

Do you guys think I'm downplaying how much the behind-the-scenes stuff works?

[anonecon]

I think in extreme situations, behind the scenes stuff can work. It might be useful in your case is because my intuition would be that if your rec letters are as good as you say, the only reason you wouldn't get in somewhere would be because the adcom burnt your application without reading your recs because of your pretty bad grades in some pretty easy math courses. Your goal should then be to make sure that they read your recs.

[OneArmedEcon]

You'll need some luck and getting your letter of recommendation writers to make calls or send emails to people on the adcoms that they know. Cracking Top 20 will be difficult. Certainly apply to many Top 20s that fit your interests, but also apply to lower ranked schools that match your interests as well. Like you, I had a less-than-perfect applicant profile. The key is to apply to as many schools as possible (I applied to 26).

[RonSwanson]

Does a B in Calc IV (which covers Partial Derivatives, Multiple Integrals, and "Vector Calculus" - line integrals/flux integrals etc) sink you? I have A's in everything else but just got back my Calc IV grade. Intuitively it shouldn't, right?

[Catrina]

Ron,

That sound like a typical Calc III course. What did you cover in your previous courses?

[RonSwanson]

Ron,

That sound like a typical Calc III course. What did you cover in your previous courses?

We're on quarters so that's probably why. Calc III covered sequences and series, derivatives of vector functions as well as vector operators, arc length, spherical coordinates and cylindrical coordinates. Maybe some more.

[Catrina]

Okay, that makes sense. We did sequences and series, as well as other coordinate systems, in Calc II, then did vectors operators and all of the things that you did in Calc IV as part of Calc III.