Profile Evaluation Request

[budfox]

Hi all,

I was hoping you could help me evaluate my profile for admissions to economics masters programs and perhaps provide me some sense of where I might be a competitive applicant.

Type of Undergrad: a very highly regarded liberal arts college.
Undergrad GPA: 3.9 overall, 3.9 economics (phi beta kappa, with honors, and some departmental awards)
GRE: 165Q, 167V
Math: Almost none. One semester of calculus (A) and a couple of stats classes. I'm a classic case of one's level of mathematical sophistication being greater than what is reflected on one's transcript. For the most part, my weak math background is why I'm considering a masters (in addition to taking more advanced economics courses)--hopefully en route to a doctorate.
Econ: Intermediate Micro (A), Intermediate Macro (A), Intro Econometrics (A), Corporate Finance(A--was considered an econ course at my school and was taught by an econ professor), Seminar in Monetary Economics (A), Seminar in Law and Economics (A). Note: our "seminars" were the most advanced courses in the curriculum (basically they were research-oriented courses and each required a thesis-esque kind of project).
Letters of Recommendation: Undergrad profs (1 Harvard). Should be OK.
Teaching Experience: Tutored intermediate micro and macro for a 2 semesters each, also TA'd an intro course.
Research Experience: None, except that the two seminar courses were VERY research intensive and resulted to two papers that, if nothing else, could make for what I think would be pretty solid writing samples.
Other: Instead of doing research and taking math classes in the summers, I was very career-focused in undergrad. I did 4 internships (1 in politics, 1 at a microfinance nonprofit, 1 at the U.S. government's export credit agency in DC, and 1 in M&A investment banking). I currently am a third-year analyst in investment banking doing mergers & acquisitions, divestitures, etc. I've learned a lot from these experiences, but I've always had a gut feeling I belonged in academe and I'm finally ready to make a move.
Research Interests: Industrial organization (specifically, in relation to business combinations and firm value).

Note: I can go anywhere in the U.S., and, thanks to a couple of years in IB, financing isn't my most pressing problem (my lack of math is!), so I'm least concerned with those questions and more concerned with where I can go in order to improve my math profile with the goal of applying to phd programs thereafter.

Note 2: while I've considered just taking math classes part-time for a few more years instead of a masters, it's pretty much impossible with my job. 90-100 hour work weeks are not uncommon at all, and I'm ready to commit full-time to school.

Any suggestions? Thanks so much everyone!

[Walras]

What level of program are you hoping to get into? I mean with only Calc I and a couple stats classes (are they from the math dept? Are they applied stats, which probably aren't calc based?) you won't be able to make it into any decent MA programs. Even the non-decent MAs will sometimes require 2 semesters of calculus and highly recommend a linear algebra course (I know one person who got in but because they didn't meet the requirements they had to spend the 1st year taking only half the core and the other half of their schedule was remedial math classes). The placement of most US MAs (except Duke and maybe Tufts) are pretty much geared towards industry with a few going to a mix of non-top 50 PhDs and top 50 PhDs.

If you're patient enough and desire a good shot at an academic career I'd highly suggest quitting your job and using the money you saved to spend a year taking math classes. Your 1st semester you won't be able to take much. Maybe just Calc II and a proof based linear algebra if you talk your way past the prerequisites (often they require calc II despite not using it in the class). Your second semester you should be able to take more math classes. Then apply to Canadian and European MAs and maybe a few top 50. At the same time you can also offer your services to econ faculty and try to work as an RA. Honestly, you'll be in a far better position to excel in your econ MA classes too, since you may have been exposed to a lot of math in IB, but it probably doesn't involve any proofs.

[budfox]

What level of program are you hoping to get into? I mean with only Calc I and a couple stats classes (are they from the math dept? Are they applied stats, which probably aren't calc based?) you won't be able to make it into any decent MA programs. Even the non-decent MAs will sometimes require 2 semesters of calculus and highly recommend a linear algebra course (I know one person who got in but because they didn't meet the requirements they had to spend the 1st year taking only half the core and the other half of their schedule was remedial math classes). The placement of most US MAs (except Duke and maybe Tufts) are pretty much geared towards industry with a few going to a mix of non-top 50 PhDs and top 50 PhDs.

If you're patient enough and desire a good shot at an academic career I'd highly suggest quitting your job and using the money you saved to spend a year taking math classes. Your 1st semester you won't be able to take much. Maybe just Calc II and a proof based linear algebra if you talk your way past the prerequisites (often they require calc II despite not using it in the class). Your second semester you should be able to take more math classes. Then apply to Canadian and European MAs and maybe a few top 50. At the same time you can also offer your services to econ faculty and try to work as an RA. Honestly, you'll be in a far better position to excel in your econ MA classes too, since you may have been exposed to a lot of math in IB, but it probably doesn't involve any proofs.

That's great advice, Walras. Thanks so much. My end game is trying to get in the best phd program possible and I'm definitely not in a rush to get there (that is, I'd rather take more time to take more math and get into a much better program than just knock out the bare minimum math and get into a lower-tier program). So my line of thinking was that doing a longer masters (even if not at Duke or Tufts, as long as it's not specifically a professional program) in which I could take plenty of math as well as graduate econ courses would put me in a better position to get into a higher ranked phd than just taking some of the math I missed out on. Still think I just do the math classes in lieu of the masters?

Much appreciated.

[Walras]

I think you really missed the point of my post. My point is you're not ready yet for any MA I'd consider worthy for admissions. I'm suggesting you spend a year to take some math classes, and do some research with somebody, and then apply to MA programs. I understand this would mean 3 years before you'd be able get to the starting line (1st year of your PhD), but I think it's worth it not to wind up some place where half the class or more can't get academic jobs. In that case you might as well save 7-8 years and stay in investment banking. Sure it'll take a year longer but remember you're thinking about sinking 7-8 years of your life into an MA and PhD. What's another year at that point if it guarantees that investment of 7-8 years can actually be a lot more useful.

[anonecon]

Much as it sucks to hear, I think Walras is right. Masters/PhD programs that don't require at least linear algrebra are pretty poor. I would say take a year doing some light RA-ing and taking Calc II, Calc III, Linear Algebra, and [this would be icing] Real Analysis. There are some colleges that will cover Calc I-Calc III/Linear Algebra in one intensive course. And some colleges that cover Calc III/Linear Alebra/Real Analysis in one course. You'll have to work hard to find an appropriate place to take your courses and possibly even take things in parallel that people usually don't.

Good luck!

[hugh11163]

Maybe go to a master program in mathematics or statistics first will help you better prepare for the Master or PhD economics application.

[Walras]

Hugh I don't mean to shoot you down and appreciate you trying to help, but there is no graduate math or statistics program will take someone without the full calc. sequence and linear algebra. Alright maybe I should [not] make broad universal statements. There could be a brand new, unaccredited math MA program I don't know about, but...

/*edits are above in brackets. Gosh that sounded stupid before I corrected it.*/

[anonecon]

Probably are accredited ones. But definitely not respectable ones.

[budfox]

Thanks for the feedback, all!

[hugh11163]

Hugh I don't mean to shoot you down and appreciate you trying to help, but there is no graduate math or statistics program will take someone without the full calc. sequence and linear algebra. Alright maybe I should [not] make broad universal statements. There could be a brand new, unaccredited math MA program I don't know about, but...

/*edits are above in brackets. Gosh that sounded stupid before I corrected it.*/

I understand your point. But what I mean here is to get an offer from a master in math or stat should be easier than to get into a decent phd program based on the math background, at least to my point of view. And since his final goal is the econ PhD, if he can do a master in math or stat, it willconceal his lack math courses in undergraduate.